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STD unveil 'support keys' for USB

By Chris Williams. Published: 25th Mar 2004, 19:56:00 | Permalink | Printable

Free support to whoever's first

RISC OS USB logoStuart Tyrrell Developments is facing a mild dilemma with regards to USB device support on RISC OS. While STD would like to get as many USB devices and gadgets working with the Simtec USB1.1 podule, they're modestly worried that their driver software is too comprehensive and users will begin to buy USB kit from non-RISC OS dealers. Hence today's introduction of MassFS version 1.00 and its community based support system.

MassFS supports storage media based USB devices, such as pen drives, card readers, MP3 players, digital cameras and zip drives, and acts as a normal RISC OS filing system. It allows users to experiment with new devices and receive updates from other users, via STD. Once a user has a new and previously unsupported USB device working with MassFS, sent the relevant configuration files to STD and had them verified, STD will publish the configuration online for other users to download and use. USB devices purchased from STD will also be bundled with a copy of MassFS.

RISC OS users are encouraged by developers and the platform's elders to only buy hardware from RISC OS friendly dealers because not only do they need our cash, the dealers will have tested all their goods on RISC OS machines to ensure compatibility and also to be in a position to offer RISC OS tailored after-sales support. It used to be the case where if you dashed off to PC World to buy some new USB gadget, you'd be on your own to get it working on RISC OS, whereas buying a similar device from a RISC OS dealer would guarantee compatibility with your setup and there'd be a nice person on the phone on a Sunday evening to talk you through the installation with a mug of cocoa - such end user support comes at a price though, which is one of the reasons why RISC OS dealers tend to charge more than high street prices.

Another side to MassFS is STD's "support key" system, which is perhaps a little contrived but we see what they're aiming for. If you have a support key, you can get end-user support from STD for a particular USB device. Buy a device from STD, get a support key. If you be the first user to provide the MassFS configuration files for a previously unsupported device and you'll be awarded a free support key for that unlocked device (pun intended). With this kind of motivation fuelling hardware minded users, we're envisaging Wacky Races style campaigns with users racing to add support for newer and newer devices, which is just what the platform needs. It'll also put a new twist on the Simtec USB vs. Castle USB saga, as drivers for one USB solution are incompatible with the other solution.

"Support for RISC OS users is central to the ethos of the Simtec/STD USB implementation - we have considered it important to produce a solution which offers assistance to those who require it, without encouraging an exodus to resellers who do not support RISC OS machines which might be seen with a 'generic' implementation," explained STD's Stuart Tyrrell.

"MassFS V1.00 continues our model of enabling support to be offered within the RISC OS customer-base, yet encourage users to experiment with new devices."

Links


MassFS website - pricings, availability, etc.
RISC OS USB website - STD and Simtec's USB support site

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Discussion

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Sounds a great idea and should keep everyone happy.

 is a RISC OS Userpipalya on 25/3/04 8:10PM
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Is there any guarantee that MassFS will work with any mass storage USB device, given an appropriate configuration file? I have a digital camera (Sony Memorystick), but it won't work with either flavour of RISC OS USB.

 is a RISC OS Userksattic on 25/3/04 9:39PM
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You'll have to try MassFS V1.00 - earlier versions don't have the facility to let users add their own devices (unless they're very good at producing encrypted keys ;) ).

Of course DigiFlash7 has always supported memory stick directly, and comes with full support.

 is a RISC OS Userstdevel on 25/3/04 10:35PM
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If RISC OS dealers can supply USB devices at a price comparable (not equal) with other suppliers, that's OK. Personally, I'm getting tired of "supporting market" issues. For example, Castle is claiming that the size of the market don't allow for a price reduction of Iyonix. Ok, it's their decision. But remember that (specially out of UK) not so many can afford, or want to fork out, ~1299 UK Pounds (Euro, when?) for a machine whose value is unknown/unneeded to most people. It's not another "lower the price!" rant, it's my point of view. A dealer/maker can apply the "market law" for asking a (high) price, but I as a buyer pay a price higher than others pay "to support". Theoretically, asking for supporting the market is a way to contrast the "market laws" that many are talking about.

 is a RISC OS Userbernie on 26/3/04 9:57AM
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bernie: If someone doesn't want or need an Iyonix, why is its price a concern to them?

dgs

 is a RISC OS Userdgs on 26/3/04 12:00PM
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ksattic:

slap sony then :rolleyes:

slap casio too - my dinky little exilim EX-520 shows up as a USB floppy drive! :-o

can bung the SD card into my reader though so its OK :-)

Interesting to see that the simtec USB solution is more generic now - nice one gents.

As far as USB bits are concerned things are looking up.

Why?

Windows XP :-o

It finally understands the generic USB classes - the magic words you as a RISC OS user are looking for on a product are:

"appears as a removable device under windows explorer"

Not guaranteed to work of course (see my camera experience...) but its a lot better than things were :-D

RISC OS bling bling ;-)

 is a RISC OS Userepistaxsis@work on 26/3/04 12:14PM
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Can we slap you for your disparate sentences and lack of well, sense?

Perhaps in future if you have something to say, then think about it first before writing it down. As it is, I can't really see too many people working through and trying to figure out what you're on about.

0.02

 is a RISC OS Usermrchocky on 26/3/04 12:45PM
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mrchocky:

slap me if you like

but I might like it ;-)

 is a RISC OS Userepistaxsis@work on 26/3/04 1:25PM
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I guess someone should support bernie...

I think the price makes a difference, even if the computer is not needed, as I know someone who bought a Pegasos (Amiga-like computer), it was about 300 for the mobo only. He bought it out of curiousity, and found that it did not really meet his needs, but for 300 that was not a big deal, it was still fun to use. I've bought computers myself out of sheer curiousity, but I've never spent 1250 on a computer I was not sure about.

So, with the Iyonix the price it is, I think many will consider it, but but at a price that was a little lower, many will buy out of curiousity or simply find it a little easier to justify to themselves.

Having said all that, the various deals Castle always seem to be running can make a big difference, and they should keep it up.

 is a RISC OS Userthegman on 26/3/04 2:06PM
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In reply to DGS:

note I have already said 'unknown'. And 'unneeded', not 'unwanted'. When I bought my Archimedes 310, it was a matter of sympathy, not utility. For school, I needed a PC. For games, the PC was rubbish, but rapidly grew. But I stuck with Acorn, and bought a RISC PC 600; again, I liked the GUI and being 'user friendly'. But now, I can't justify so much money only for sympathy. Excuse me for increasing the length of the thread, but I feel I need to explain.

 is a RISC OS Userbernie on 26/3/04 2:16PM
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thegman: Do you really mean "a little lower" ? If Castle cut two hundred pounds off the price of a basic Iyonix, would people suddenly start buying a 1099ukp computer "out of curiosity" even if it didn't do what they wanted?

I agree that a lower price makes it easier for people to justify it to themselves (and spouses...), but that was the case for the Risc PC too. One has to stop somewhere - if people really want one, they will save up the extra few hundred pounds.

I do know one Drobe user who has one Iyonix already, and is getting a second one for his wife.

Do the comments about price apply to the Omega too?

bernie: Thanks for explaining. The Iyonix is cheaper than the original Risc PC 600. Take a decade's inflation into account, and it's a *lot* cheaper. If what you personally can afford has changed, that's not Castle's fault.

dgs

 is a RISC OS Userdgs on 26/3/04 2:43PM
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Bernie> Sympathy is not a good reason to use a computer. I use RISC OS because it enabled me to do what I want to do in the quickest, least obstructed way possible. I have no other affinity with the platform other than I find I am more productive with it.

 is a RISC OS Userjonix on 26/3/04 2:53PM
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dgs: I'm not sure that there is much point in comparing the price of the Iyonix to a RiscPC when new. Since the computer market has changed considerably since then it's beyond me to say if the Iyonix now is better or worse value for money than the RiscPC was in 1994 (hope I've got my year right!)

The Iyonix would probably have to be several hundred pounds cheaper to make a big difference in sales. I don't think that any drop in price that leaves it above 1000 would make a difference (this is just how I feel about it, of course). Castle might very well have got their pricing as right as they can.

 is a RISC OS UserSimonC on 26/3/04 3:10PM
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dgs: I can't talk for others, but I went to the Guildford show when the Iyonix was released, on the way there I was thinking to myself that if it was 1000 or less and the specs were right, I'd get one on the spot (at the time I was after a S/H SA RiscPC). When I saw it , I was a little disappointed with the spec, the boring case (call me shallow), and the price was more than I wanted to pay. Incidentally I was disappointed with the spec as MD had always talked about 1GHz processors, and 600MHz did not seem like a lot (of course with hindsight, it turned out that talk was all it was).

For me, the right price is 999, the magic 'under a grand' price point. Obviously we'd all like it to be cheaper, but for all the reasons above, we probably all accept it cannot be.

For price comparison with the RiscPC, I think the market has changed and a brand name PC can now be had for less that 300, and even a Mac can be had for less than 600, so the comparison is not as direct as it appears.

The price comments certainly apply to the Omega, as it certainly appears to represent far worse value than the Iyonix, based on what little we know about the Omega.

 is a RISC OS Userthegman on 26/3/04 4:56PM
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For Australian users wanting an Iyonix the shipping is extortinate but if any of them would like to contact me a group of us have a solution that offers a saving of up to 15% on getting your own Iyonix into Australia. All legal and above board.

 is a RISC OS Userrmacf on 26/3/04 5:52PM
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Hang on, so STD has produced a generic driver program , and if you get a device working with it (by writing a config file) then you get a key to allow you to use it and STD distributes that to other users?

Sounds funky to me. I'd prefer true open-source really.

And really, I think dealers should be able to compete with PC box-shifters without resorting to product lock-in - maybe customer service, or support, or not being served by a spotty 16 year old Dixons moron.

Also, the Iyonix is never going to be able to be made cheap enough to have mass appeal - that's the thing with niche markets, just ask a Mac biggot (sorry, fan). I mean, for a the price of an Iyonix, you could build 3 Windoze boxes that would outperform it in all respects, so what's the point of trying to compete - you just have to have a loyal following, and hope the OS is all that is needed to convince people to buy the hardware at the "premium" price.

Personally, I shall be selling/gutting for spares my 2 SA-RPC's so I can build another Linux box.....

 is a RISC OS Usersimo on 26/3/04 9:36PM
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simo: "Also, the Iyonix is never going to be able to be made cheap enough to have mass appeal"

You are exactly right here, especially since you specify mass appeal as what the Mac doesn't have. Mass appeal = dirt cheap (that's why we're talking about 300ukp Wintel boxes), and annual sales in the hundreds of millions or whatever it is now.

Whatever the zealots may tell us, the Iyonix is not intended to compete directly with a cheap Wintel box - after all, if people want what a 300ukp box has, then changing price from 1299ukp to 999ukp isn't going to change their minds.

thegman explains the dilemma in an easy to understand way. Guessing Iyonix sales as roughly a thousand, thegman's recommended price for the Iyonix would have lost Castle close to half a million pounds. No problem, some may say, the price reduction will bring in lots of potential buyers like - thegman. *Except* he admits that he wouldn't have bought the Iyonix at the time anyway, even at that price, because he didn't like the case, had been misled about X-Scale compatible computers, et cetera.

(It's all going back to the RISC OS 4 "I'd buy it if it was half the price, honestly" nonsense).

Half a million pounds of lost revenue takes a *lot* of "it's not /really/ a thousand pounds, I think I'll buy it!" to make up...

People who want a real RISC OS computer will buy a real RISC OS computer. People who want a 300ukp Wintel box will buy that. (Some of them will run an Acorn emulator on it).

dgs

 is a RISC OS Userdgs on 26/3/04 10:45PM
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should be written in neon pink letters 1/2 a mile high:

"you get what you pay for"

with Iyonix it is a low volume custom computer and with massFS 1.00 it is the ability to have a more useful USB experience...

Which of course you could use with your 150 RiscPC and have fun ;-)

When will this price bemoaning finally end? :rolleyes:

 is a RISC OS Userepistaxsis@work on 26/3/04 11:02PM
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dgs: Just to clarify, I'm not recommending Castle charge 999 for the Iyonix, they know how to run their business better than I, but that price might have made the difference to me.The case was'nt a deal breaker either (I've bought uglier computers that that!), and nor was the 600MHz XScale, but it all added up to me not being enthusiastic to part with my money. I quite agree that 250 off the price for us is a big loss in revenue for Castle, and you might be right that it would not attract enough users to make up the difference. All I know is that if you make a niche computer at the right price, people like me will buy them purely because we *want* them, not for any logical reason.

And just to chip on the USB thing, I think STD is actually under-charging for MassFS, 10 is more than reasonable, I think I'd be happy to pay 30 or more if it let me use USB keychains, SD cards for Palms, and MP3 players.

Getting back to Iyonix though, I was disappointed when it first turned up, but now, with growing USB support, and the excellent TV card developments, my enthusiasm has returned somewhat.

 is a RISC OS Userthegman on 27/3/04 12:16AM
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epistaxsis: "with Iyonix it is a low volume custom computer and with massFS 1.00 it is the ability to have a more useful USB experience"

Stuart's announcement says "The STD/Simtec card is a USB1.1 compatible expansion card for RISC OS computers fitted with a backplane".

Important question - is the obvious implication true? Why not have total compatibility across all implementations, all in one computer!

After all, you can fill an Iyonix podule slot with a 100Mbit Castle network podule, or a very slow Acorn SCSI podule, or a second-hand podule, or various specialist podules that do various things. Not everyone is going to want more than one of these podules. (But we do like the fact they leave all four of the PCI slots free...)

Only Stuart has the answer!

dgs

 is a RISC OS Userdgs on 27/3/04 12:20AM
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oops :blush:

I wasn't making any reference to massFS & Iyonix - massFS is a product for the dwindling RiscPC market

Podule was (& is...) an excellent system for low bandwidth expansion, MIDI being a prime example

 is a RISC OS Userepistaxsis@work on 27/3/04 12:26AM
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thegman: We seem to be going round in circles here. You readily admit that people buy real RISC OS computers because (your words) "we *want* them, not for any logical reason". Since that's the case, people save up a few months longer (some people I know have been saving for more than a year for their Iyonix!), and buy one.

250ukp one way or the other doesn't really come into it. No-one who doesn't read Computer Shopper is fooled into thinking that 999ukp is significantly less than 1000ukp. If Castle sold the top of the range Iyonix for 1899ukp that would be bad marketing, but they don't. Let's all get over it and/or save up.

I don't think anyone suggested that Stuart was over-charging for MassFS. The equivalent (and the USB card) is free on the Iyonix, though, and seems to support more devices purely because so many developers, testers and users already own an Iyonix.

Amazing how the market changes...

dgs

 is a RISC OS Userdgs on 27/3/04 12:29AM
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epistaxsis: "massFS is a product for the dwindling RiscPC market"

Come now. There are still plenty of Risc PC systems in operation, even if spares are rather in short supply and the userbase is in the process of moving. Only a year ago, sales of network interfaces (advertised as 100Mbit even if apparently incapable of coping with it) and USB cards, for the Risc PC were seen as exemplary.

Why deny the Risc PC its final hour of fame, including with dealers who have put effort into supporting it? After all, it's not long since the final A3xx and A4xx users finally gave up :(

I think Risc PC owners should fulfill an Acorn tradition, by continuing to use their dying computers even when there is no sensible reason for doing so!

dgs

 is a RISC OS Userdgs on 27/3/04 12:44AM
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dgs: I don't think I've explained myself very well, my point was more that (some) people *don't* necessarily buy RISC OS machines simply because they want them, due to the price. I know that's one of the things that is stopping me buying an Iyonix (not indefinitely, but for now at least). I think the Pegasos has sold to many down to it's low price, and you can get it as hobby machine without breaking the bank, that's not the case with the Iyonix. My (wandering) point is that the 'curiousity buyers' don't want to save *at all*, they will often buy on impulse. Speaking for myself, I can't spend 1250 on impulse, I could'nt spend 1000 on impulse, but at least it's getting closer.

I stated 999 as the price as this is how computers are marketed, you're right, if it was 1000 exactly, it makes no difference. I'm not saying the 250 makes a big difference to a lot of people, but it's 20% of the price, and still quite a lot of money to some.

You're probably quite right that we should get over the price of the Iyonix, but I guess it's good sign that we still care ;-)

 is a RISC OS Userthegman on 27/3/04 12:54AM
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dgs:

long live the tradition!

;-)

 is a RISC OS Userepistaxsis@work on 27/3/04 12:56AM
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With regards to DGS and epistaxis@work's comments about the pricing of Iyonix machines.

First I understand the price of the Iyonix is lower than 10 years ago the price of the Risc PC 600. However 10 years ago the market value o/t Risc PC was much higher than of the affordmentioned Iyonix. A comparable PC costed about the half of a Risc PC back then. Plus we HAD new and exciting software (being released) and opportunities. The Iyonix today is a truely remarkable machine but has less usabillity today because a) some o.t features aren't fully implemented b) Our decreased software base has lost its appeal.

Secondly the problems seems worse abroad. Since the Iyonics cost about 2000 Euro. Indeed 20% cheaper than the RPC when it was released. But with less marketappeal and usability. Besides the 20% cheaper price doesn't include the numerous software upgrades that increases the cost of ownership. You have to upgrade your excisting software (if upgradable at all). And even then most o/t software doesn't have much benefit compared to other software.

In fact I could ask this. Isn't, anno 2004, +2000 euro a bit too much to run draw and paint a bit faster?

Also most of our prime software is already converted to PC and has evolved (e.g. SIbelius, Artworks/Xara, Textease and soon Ovation). Again where's the benefit?

So considering that in the end all you need is get the job done. What's the better investment? A 1000 euro P4 3GHz with 512MB Ram and 80GB HDD and Xara+Ovation or an 2000 euro Iyonix with 256MB, 40GB hdd and Artworks (with all the required upgrades)+Ovation?

Again. the problem is not what we want. But what we can afford to spend especially since many of us already spend once or twice 2500 euro's in the past on their home-computers (1992 A5000 and 1995 Risc PC). We can't all get away with it for a third time.

 is a RISC OS Userepdm3be on 27/3/04 1:27AM
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epdm3be: I can appreciate your dilemma, however all of the "PCs are even *cheaper* than last year" stuff, together with price comparisons with the latest RISC OS machine, has been going on since the A5000 (not just the Risc PC!)

Your argument seems to be based upon a whole series of suppositions that have no relevance to genuine RISC OS users.

Yes, of course if someone thinks that since they spent thousands of pounds on their A5000 and then thousands of pounds on their Risc PC (as I did, both brand new), then they can't afford any more, they obviously can't afford an Iyonix. As I hinted above, it's a pity that these people's income has supposedly fallen so sharply!

Your suggestion that an Iyonix only runs "draw and paint a bit faster[sic]" is just plain silly. Watch csa.announce for a week or so, and learn better.

You complain about the cost of real RISC OS hardware abroad, but you seem to have missed the hard work put in by some Australian users to make the Iyonix more affordable there. Have you talked to your nearest Iyonix dealer?

I have no idea what an o.t feature is, perhaps you will explain.

You cite RISC OS software that has been converted to Windows, seemingly as a reason for not needing a real RISC OS computer. I refer to the answer I gave bernie, some dozens of posts above. Please read it!

dgs

 is a RISC OS Userdgs on 27/3/04 1:49AM
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Just to join in the discussion:-) In the time I have owned my RiscPC (bought a year after launch), a pal of mine has had 3 wintel machines just to keep up. So there is a huge difference between cost of purchase and cost of ownership. As to the Iyonix - I wouldn't be without it now, the RiscPC is hardly used now.

 is a RISC OS UserEddie on 27/3/04 7:34AM
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Amazing .... an USB tool is announced for the elderly RISC OS machines - no surpise, since for some reason best known to themselves, STD tends to *not* support the IYONIX pc ... and then the discussion is about the IYONIX pc and it's price :-) <p> True, the IYONIX pc does cost a bit ... erm quite a bit. But to get a PC which offers about the same specs you might have to dig deep in your money box too. No, I'm not talking MHz and GHz but speed! By speed I mean the time I need to do something with it. Take email: On my IYONIX pc I'm reading the first ones whereas on a PC I'd just have finished booting it. It always depends on your needs! <br>And as to that comment "Incidentally I was disappointed with the spec as MD had always talked about 1GHz processors, and 600MHz did not seem like a lot (of course with hindsight, it turned out that talk was all it was). " As already stated in brackets ... what good is science fiction :-) <p> In all I think it a pity that STD ignores the IYONIX pc ... well as for MassFS the IYONIX pc does support quite a bit of that. Some devices don't work but that can be due to the hardware not adhering to basic standards. I have an USB stick with drives for Windows 98 with does *not* work with Windows 98! (but incidentially does work on IYONIX pc). So for some devices the manufacturer of them should be blamed too...

 is a RISC OS Userhzn on 27/3/04 7:47AM
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Assume you can do your work in 80% of the time on an Iyonix rather than on Windows, and your time is worth 5ukps/hour, working 5 hours a day, or 4 with RISC OS. that's 5ukps/day, or 1825ukps/year.

That's without the 1000s spent paying your therapist after having to use Windows.

 is a RISC OS Usermavhc on 27/3/04 11:18AM
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Hi DGS,

In regard to your comments. Ppl's income HAS fallen. I don't know where you live but in the Eurozone every merchant increased their prices when they switched to Euro. Together with already high taxes that had been raising year after year (Especially Belgium which is already the second highest Tax rated country in Europe). So buying a 2000 Euro's computer is simply more out of reach now then a 80000 BEF (approx. 2000 euro) Risc PC 10 years years ago.

As my line regarding "draw and paint". You believe this comment was a bit harsh. For increased software productivity I don't refer to the ongoing switch to 32-bit Iyonix compatible mode. This is simply a neccesary step into maintaining the current software titles usable. I also don't refer to the porting of various Linux programs to RISC OS. Especially since some of these apps are targetted at completely different markets than what RISC OS used to be and usually exhibit the same problems as the traditional ROS apps. My problems run deeper. When the Risc PC was released together with at that time innovative new software. The usability of a RISC OS machine became on par (or was even better than) with a higher end Mac or PC. In fact I bought my A5000 and RPC as an viable alternative to do professional DTP-work. In those days even Acorn Ltd. wanted to get their machines recognised in this field. After awhile I outlined serious flaws in the DTP-workflow on Risc OS machines namely their bad PS (PS=Postscript) and EPS support and their non-excistent interoperability. Oh sure, RISC OS bitmap import is second to none as is its internal support for vector gfx files. The problem becomes apparant when you want to mix and match RISC OS data files from various applications. You see, from PC's and MAC's to RISC OS (especially bitmaps) is no problem... but from RISC OS to RISC OS that's a real pain (though things have been improved alittle with Ovation Pro AFA as DTP work is concerned) While this is excactly where PC and MAC software excells. E.g. the current version of Word can STILL import Wordperfect documents retaining their full layout. And MAC's always had an exellent PS and EPS workflow to professional output-equipment (ofcourse, "they" invented it!).

Anyway the world outside moved on. Beyond PS1 and PS2 to PDF (in various flavours). Better professional output equipment, better multimedia (once another the crown of RISC OS). We're still stuck with a flawed PS, no support or power to handle various high profile media (MPeg2/MPeG2-video, DVD, Direct_to_print-machines etc.). So it came as no surprise that Acorn's first step was to abandon the DTP-market before loosing grip on the educational market. Things went rapidly downhill from there on. And today there's virtually no professional (DTP-) work anymore done using RISC OS. Please don't put the Acorn publisher/quercus/Acorn User in my face. I'm sure "parts" of it are indeed done using RISC OS but I doubt that the entire publication was done with it. The "olde" Acorn user definitly wasn't (while Publisher was, which is a brave attempt indeed but definitly less problematic 10 years ago when all the others had their teething problems too).

Now to contact my dealer... hmm this is going to be a serious problem. See, I WAS the official Acorn dealer in Belgium :-( And I did in my days everything possible to level prices between UK and the european mainland contrary to Acorn dealers before me who thought to grab some big bucks. With me a RISC PS costed 2000 Euro (approximated) the same price as it was in the UK and not 2500 euro as ALL other dealers wanted from them. I had to do this to stop enthousiast from obtaining the machines in the Uk directly while still giving a personal service. Things went worse for me several years ago right after Acorn stopped and Castle bought their entire stock. Castle had (understandably) delivery-problems. I lost many clients during that transition period and have had no request from either my old customer base nor new ppl wanting a RISC OS machines ever since. Nor did I receive anything from Castle (as the sole distributor/manufactutor of the Acorn brand) of how things would go on and whether my status as official dealer was still unaffected. Today I know at least one of my old customers bought an Iyonix at the previous Acorn Expo. In fact the man who bought one was a gentleman who used an old A440 for several years, bypassing the A5000 and RISC PC, and finally saved enough for a new Iyonix without affecting other financial needs (Hi Steffaan). All other former clients either still have their Risc PC (maybe upgraded to RISC OS 4) next to their PC and probably will buy their stuff without me directly from the UK or at some fair in Holland or Germany (provided they still want a RISC OS machine). Not that this is a huge lot though. In fact if there are 30 RISC OS users left in Belgium that'll be much.

The fact that I still respond to this is purely that I put my heart in Acorn and its technology. I've put a lot of time, energy and money into it during the years that was dealer. I still believe that RISC OS machines should rule. So this is even more saddening for me than for the average user who simply buys a new 'puter if the old one isn't sufficient for his needs anymore. Also Joe Average couldn't care less whether his new 'puter ran Windows , MACOS, LINUX or RISCOS. As long as he can find the games and apps (preferably coppied), he's okay. On the other hand I find it horrible that we have NO true European IT innovation anymore. Psion is gone and Acorn is gone. The few remaining bits have no vissibility on the market at all.

Anyway. I hope this rant wasn't disturbing orso. I just wanted to clear things up on this side o/t Channel. IF I stepped on anyones toes then I appologise for that.

Regards,

EPDM3BE

 is a RISC OS Userepdm3be on 27/3/04 11:26AM
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