Drobe :: The archives
About Drobe | Contact | RSS | Twitter | Tech docs | Downloads | BBC Micro

Select 3i4 released online

By Chris Williams. Published: 25th Jun 2004, 13:17:10 | Permalink | Printable

Business as usual

Select 3 motifRISCOS Ltd. has today released Select 3i4 to subscribers. The developers of RISC OS 4 also add that, "in keeping with our policy of allowing subscribers to see what is available before committing to a new subscription, anyone whose membership was valid up until March 2004 will be able to download this latest update even if they haven't renewed yet."

RISCOS Ltd. are also "pleased" to report that Castle have contacted them to talk about incorporating some Select features into the Merlin project. They've also pencilled in Christmas 2004 for the Select 4 release.

Earlier this week, RISCOS Ltd. reportedly informed a user that "Castle's actions to date have been taken entirely without judicial backing."


Select 3i4 available - change database, summary of features in download, but sadly not public RISCOS Ltd.'s official response to Castle's allegations - exclusively reported originally on drobe.co.uk

Previous: Expo 2004 show photos
Next: News in brief


Viewing threaded comments | View comments unthreaded, listed by date | Skip to the end

Select features incorporated into the Merlin project - yes please!

 is a RISC OS Userjonix on 25/6/04 1:26PM
[ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Oh no, I'm going to have to reboot my RiscPC after more than one month of up time!

Anyway, off I go to quickly download Select 3i4 before, and just in case, ROL vanishes. ;o)

 is a RISC OS Userfylfot on 25/6/04 2:39PM
[ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

I have to ask....

If an existing Select subscriber downloads this release and uses it in their RISC OS machine are they breaking any kind of law with regard to the current Castle|ROL license conflict?

 is a RISC OS Userquatermass on 25/6/04 2:44PM
[ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Is there a simple list of changes and new features that Select 3i4 provides over the previous Select release? All I can find from the links in this article are lists of the module version numbers in different versions of Select. I have to click on each module name in the CVS list to see if anything has changed. :(

 is a RISC OS Userksattic on 25/6/04 3:39PM
[ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

It seems to break stuff :( My hourglass is borked.

 is a RISC OS UserAndrewDuffell on 25/6/04 3:54PM
[ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Also, my Risc PC now no longer outputs any sound!! MP3s, and ^g

 is a RISC OS UserAndrewDuffell on 25/6/04 4:04PM
[ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

ksattic: no, there's no simple list yet, although I may put one together if I can't find anything that's public. Select 3i4 is functionally the same as Adjust 1i2. S3i4 users get told what's new since 4.02 in the docs that are downloadable.

Andrew: you perhaps might want to do a fresh install of your boot sequence, in case you've got something naughty in your existing set up (modules, patches, etc)

Chris. Just me.

 is a RISC OS Userdiomus on 25/6/04 4:18PM
[ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

It's 99.9% just what Adjust 1i2 is. You still get the deep-masked (thus faster plotting) sprites with Select, though.

Adjust cf Select 3i3 list is here: [link]

 is a RISC OS Userimj on 25/6/04 4:18PM
[ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Out of interest, what does all this XiX version numbering actually mean?

 is a RISC OS Usernunfetishist on 25/6/04 4:49PM
[ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

i stands for 'issue', so this is basically the fourth revision of 'Select 3'. I hadn't heard Adjust referred to as Adjust1i2 before though, which makes me wonder what happened to Adjust1i1?

 is a RISC OS Userninja on 25/6/04 5:18PM
[ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Andrew: don't know what's going on there; does your machine work OK when reverting to the old Select version? Given the number of working Adjust installations, I'd suspect it's not Select3i4 itself because they're functionally almost identical. As Chris said: expect to find naughtiness in your !Boot.

Nun: XiX. First number is the 'major' release: Select 1, 2, 3 etc. The second is the 'release' number. Thus this is the fourth release of Select 3. Minor releases are mainly bug-fix releases rather than features; not strictly true of 3i4 as it does contain a few new features, but generally true. Generally it's all just rounded buttons anyway :o).

Individual component numbers do change between versions, but the kernel version isn't forced to change, thus S3i3, 3i4 and Adjust 1i2 are all RISC OS 4.39 IIRC (I may be wrong on 3i3...)

Do upgrade as the bugfix list (to RISC OS generally, not just from 3i3,) is absolutely massive, and as Adjust owners will no doubt testify, Adjust's stability is impressive. Pay particular attention to the TextGadgets module if you want to see big changes.

 is a RISC OS Usermd0u80c9 on 25/6/04 5:18PM
[ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

I just installed a fresh RISC OS 4 !Boot, and then Select3i4 and the same is happening again. Anyway... I'm off to Redcar beach now, so I'll have to sort it later :|

 is a RISC OS UserAndrewDuffell on 25/6/04 5:39PM
[ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Quater/Others: If Castle "win" (and I use the term loosely) the current situation, _and_ if Castle also decide to pursue the situation with Select subscribers, then your download could be in question.

IANAL, and I really don't wish to speculate further on the matter, but that is my current understanding.

FWIW, I _have_ downloaded it, but not yet installed it, mainly for unrelated practical reasons (uptime being one of them), and because I already have Adjust and so am not in a great hurry for the features in the new version.

 is a RISC OS Usermrchocky on 25/6/04 5:51PM
[ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

I like it that ROL writes "In keeping with our policy of allowing subscribers to see what is available before committing to a new subscription..." since it kind of gives you the impression that they want to tell you in what you'll get for your subscrition. That would have been a change, but that is *wrong* I think, since:

Just a few lines further down you can read "Full details are as usual under constant review but one item we can announce...". Yes, that's more like it as far as I remember from ROLs information policy: You'll get to know what you get when you get it for most features. Puuuh, after the first sentence I was baffled but things didn't change:

You pay and they throw in what they want and manage to do :-)

 is a RISC OS Userhzn on 25/6/04 6:07PM
[ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Quite a lot of people have asked for Select features on the Iyonix (not just Castle)....

 is a RISC OS Usermarkee174 on 25/6/04 8:52PM
[ Reply | Permalink | Report ]


well sort of...

we've just had a meeting @ ROUGOL last monday to see how much of current select we, RO5 users, would like to see included.

Beyond bugfixes (like the pinboard for instance) most was actually beyond the spanglyness of select.


 is a RISC OS Userepistaxsis@work on 25/6/04 9:25PM
[ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

In reply to markee174:

Indeed and until now ROL sugested IYONIX users should subscribe and wait for ROL to get around to offer RISC OS Select for the IYONIX pc but always gave the impression they wanted to do a full Select instead of offering the Select features for the IYONIX pc. I remember some strange statements about kernel changes needed but I don't believe that to be necessary for most of the user visible changes which Select offers and which are not in RISC OS 5 (like e.g. the Image Conversion modules or a new CDFS - no, I don't need rounded buttons and like gimmicks).

But since ROL now is pleased that Castle asked for Select features for Merlin (they wrote that) perhaps things start moving ...

 is a RISC OS Userhzn on 25/6/04 10:01PM
[ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

epistaxsis: Actually the meeting was open to all RISC OS users, but the aim was to provide genuine feedback to Castle from real people. The meeting was not restricted to RISC OS 5 users, and indeed I'm told that over 40% of the audience didn't own an Iyonix :-)

It's entirely plausible that some people will be happy to use a StrongARM Risc PC for the next three to four years. But that small minority aren't likely to be the people Castle should be targetting in OS development...


 is a RISC OS Userdgs on 25/6/04 10:20PM
[ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

As I understand it, almost all Select modules (including ImageFileRender and ImageFileConvert I guess) now use 'heap' dynamic areas for their workspace rather than claiming blocks of the module area. Heap DAs are a feature of the Select kernel that is AFAIK not supported by RISC OS 5. Although it would be possible to modify Select modules not to rely upon this kernel feature I can well imagine that the RISCOS Ltd developers would see this as a retrograde step.

FWIW I too was dubious about the value of rounded buttons, but having got my hands on Select I now have them configured on all the time and I wouldn't want to go back. The Iyonix looks odd without them! AFAICT they have been implemented as an extension to the Wimp that is handled by a separate module, so it is not as if this is the kind of feature 'bloat' that Castle need worry about impacting upon the use of RISC OS in embedded systems.

 is a RISC OS Userthesnark on 25/6/04 10:28PM
[ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

just upgraded to 4.39. Everything appears to work as did on 4.37. Sound works too. I noticed dialogue box action buttons now seem to be in a faded shade.

 is a RISC OS Usersa110 on 25/6/04 10:33PM
[ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

No one seriously needs rounded buttons but one could become very used to it... ;-) The dynamic area problem does not have to be one in the future IF Castle would change the memory handling. I donīt mean they shall give up their "classic" module area approach but change the dynamic area code so it can handle bigger memory blocks at higher workspace addresses, which is IIRC the main problem with the dynamic areas. ROL could be "humbly of service" if they give knowledge or even manpower to Castle to manage this task. But I think I should wake up now and forget my sweet dreams... :wink:

:AndrewDuffell: Andrew - Your sound problems can have both software and hardware reasons... If you have a Mk I Risc PC main pcb you either played along with 8bit sound for the last several years (which I donīt expect) or youīve a small circuit board, about 3" wide, on your mainboard in the upper right section just beneath the lowest podule. There might be even two cards if you have a seperate mixer card. These cards can have loose connections as the small 3- or 4-connector is not that stable... Simply pull it off the board connector and reconnect as it could have loosened up some time ago, maybe as you last time changed the ROMs. But even more it could be a software problem due to a misconfiguration. Have you checked your configuration, if it is set to 8bit or 16bit oversampled? I canīt recommend 16bit (not oversampled) as I happened to experience a total loss of sound on my machine when it was configured at 16bit. My Risc PC uses a Mozart16bit sound upgrade. If nothing helpes rage, you should consider to contact your (more or less) local RISC OS dealer as your machine could have a somehow crippled VIDC or IOMD or even a defect main pcb... That you never experienced this problem before does not mean it is new! Some lines of code in Select3i4/Adjust1i2 could be a bit more dependend on a correct timing of the hardware or only expect other tolerances. I donīt think this is the problem but one canīt exclude it as a possible reason.

 is a RISC OS UserArcNinja on 26/6/04 3:58AM
[ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

It's a first hand, 1999 (I think) Kinetic RPC from castle... I'll try another minimal fresh install, and see if it works. thanks.

 is a RISC OS UserAndrewDuffell on 26/6/04 8:20AM
[ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

So as an Iyonix owner, will ROL have anything to sell me?

I'm not really interested in the legal wrangles as they don't yet effect me (any more than SCO case impacts on my use of Linux although both might in the future). I'm just a user and I want to use RISC OS....

ROL sold it to me last year on the basis that if Iyonix users didn't subscribe to Select them nothing would appear for the Iyonix. Fair enough. But I think I want to see a bit of movement from them now before I pay for a second year.

 is a RISC OS Usermarkee174 on 26/6/04 10:25AM
[ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Andrew - *Unplug DMAManager done???

 is a RISC OS Usermd0u80c9 on 26/6/04 11:22AM
[ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

to markee174:

I was in the same position over a year ago. But since ROL just asked me to continue to pay them for Select but didn't tell me when I'd get what but just that they're commited to do something some time in the future. Since I didn't want to sit there paying for the odd year based on such a comittment with no idea when (or if) I'll get what I quit.

But since I did want them to do something for the IYONIX pc I did commit myself to ROL stating that when they offer something of use to me on my IYONIX pc at a reasonable price I'd be happy to pass on the money so that this way they got my commitment... like me having theirs ...

 is a RISC OS Userhzn on 26/6/04 11:40AM
[ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Seems to be a hardware problem... something to do with either memory, or the Kinetic card...

 is a RISC OS UserAndrewDuffell on 26/6/04 2:03PM
[ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

In reply to hzn:

I paid for the first year to give them the opportunity and time to come up with some ideas. That was always the Select scheme worked. But I will not do that twice.

ROL don't have to produce a detailed plan to produce x by a certain date and then have us screaming if the date slips (in IT the date slips 99% of the time!), but they need to meet us halfway and show there is something on the table.

 is a RISC OS Usermarkee174 on 26/6/04 3:02PM
[ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Select 3i4 works fine on my Kinetic, funnily enough even without doing a *unplug dmamanager. I also have a ViewFinder and STD USB card in there. Did you do a delete power on? I normally hold down delete until Select boots completely, as there appear to be two sets of configuration settings, for before and after Select has softloaded.

 is a RISC OS Userksattic on 26/6/04 4:37PM
[ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

ksattic - that's a me too in there. That's why I'm pretty confident it's hardware too. I'd unplug DMAManager though, otherwise you won't get to play MP3s for example, cos it'll just stutter.

 is a RISC OS Usermd0u80c9 on 26/6/04 6:01PM
[ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

While I understand that the Select Subscription Scheme from various RISC OS Users was a means of generating money for the development and continuity of the project, was it originally intended to be released only for it's subscribers first and then to non subscribers at a higher cost later? Was Select sold with each new RISC OS machine since it's first release, or was it and is it only available to Select Subscribers? I am not fully informed of the Select Scheme's workings, but I am wondering if it was only exclusively for Select Subscribers and that the "Option" of getting Select was by Subscription. I'm not sure I like the idea 100% of how Select was slowly developed and offered. Expensive as the Iyonixs is, I still would rather pay good money for something to own outright rather than be part of an exclusive scheme or have security protected dongles and updating protection schemes for something supposed to be a sold licence rights. Cheers, Steve.

 is a RISC OS UserSawadee on 27/6/04 8:41AM
[ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Please login before posting a comment. Use the form on the right to do so or create a free account.

Search the archives

Today's featured article

  • Copying vinyl to CDs
    Play it again, Sam
     10 comments, latest by Heathcliffe on 15/2/06 9:49AM. Published: 11 Feb 2006

  • Random article

  • Christmas 2007 show fully booked up
    Final exhibitor list published
     3 comments, latest by rjek on 30/11/07 5:04PM. Published: 10 Nov 2007

  • Useful links

    News and media:

    Top developers:
    RISCOS LtdRISC OS OpenMW SoftwareR-CompAdvantage SixVirtualAcorn

    CJE MicrosAPDLCastlea4X-AmpleLiquid SiliconWebmonster


    RISCOS.org.ukRISCOS.orgRISCOS.infoFilebaseChris Why's Acorn/RISC OS collectionNetSurf

    Non-RISC OS:
    The RegisterThe InquirerApple InsiderBBC NewsSky NewsGoogle Newsxkcddiodesign

    ÂĐ 1999-2009 The Drobe Team. Some rights reserved, click here for more information
    Powered by MiniDrobeCMS, based on J4U | Statistics
    "The Drobe 'Best of 2005 awards' seems to have been infiltrated by a form of favouritism or censorship"
    Page generated in 0.2509 seconds.