ROL to launch Adjust on CD | Drobe.co.uk archives

ROL to launch Adjust on CD

By Chris Williams. Published: 17th Feb 2005, 18:32:25 | Permalink | Printable

Foundation magazine compilation on DVD

RISCOS Ltd. is set to launch a softloadable version of RISC OS Adjust. The 26bit RISC OS 4.39 will be released on CD to enable users to "experience the Select experience without subscribing to the Select scheme", according to the OS developers. RISC OS Adjust is near identical to Select release 3i4.

The Adjust CD will cost £95 and will allow punters to later upgrade to a full Select subscription, for the difference in price between the CD version and the relevant subscription rate, within 90 days of the Select 4 release. RISCOS Ltd. inform us that a Select 4 launch is pencilled in for sometime later this year.

RISCOS Ltd. say they will launch the Adjust CD at this month's South West show, along with a DVD compilation of all 16 issues of Foundation Risc User magazine.

RISCOS Ltd.'s Paul Middleton told us: "This will be available on a sliding scale for current Foundation members and Select subscribers, as well as non-Subscribers and new subscribers. There will also be special bundles of Adjust ROMs with the DVD, a Lite-On DVD drive with the DVD, new Foundation membership and DVD, Select and DVD."

We're told that RISC OS Select and Adjust can read DVD discs, and the compilation disc's content is stored in HTML format for those with PC and Apple computers.

Links

RISCOS Ltd. website Adjust feature list and review

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Next: Acorn era preservation

Discussion

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Does it still need RO 4 as a starting point?

I would imagine anyone with an old Risc PC would be likely to be dubious about buying new ROMs for it, but buying a softload OS would be a different matter, because the OS could easily be moved to another cheap machine from ebay.

I note the other article saying that more users probably have RO 3.x than 4.x

jess on 17/2/05 6:53PM
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Personally, I'd just prefer for them to get on and release Select 4. The current release of Select 4.39, is coming upto a year old!

sa110 on 17/2/05 8:21PM
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Well, don't forget all the hassle after Castle sent them cease and desist letters, and put out announcements saying they'd terminated ROL's licence, and the subsequent negotiations to get back on track. That's got to put a brake on things.

Chris. Just me.

diomus on 17/2/05 8:30PM
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diomus: Were the programmers involved in the negotiations?

dgs

dgs on 17/2/05 8:40PM
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dgs: You know full well that ROL were negotiating for a new licence to develop and sell RISC OS 4. If Castle were serious with their accusations, terminating their existing licence would put a brake on things, hm?

Then there's also the source code issue too. As I understand it, Castle asked for the source code to ROL's ROS 4 as per their interpretation of the Head licence. ROL said this interpretation was wrong. If a competitor is demanding your source code, do you carry on working and hope for the best?

It's annoying this has to be dredged up again.

Chris. Just me.

diomus on 17/2/05 8:56PM
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It certainly does't look like the programmers were sat around doing nothing for all that time, or the Embedded Ajust 32 would never have materialised. Wasn't Select 4 due to be released back end of last year any how?

sa110 on 17/2/05 9:18PM
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diomus: "You know full well that ROL were negotiating for a new licence to develop and sell RISC OS 4"

When? And why? Why should I "know full well" about it? Which particular whisper campaign would I need to be following in order to know that?

"If a competitor is demanding your source code, do you carry on working and hope for the best?"

Are you suggesting that your sources involved with RISCOS Ltd have told you that they stopped doing programming work when it was suggested that ownership of the head license included access to the source code?

"It's annoying this has to be dredged up again".

Sorry, but it was you that just dredged it up in your comment just above!

dgs

dgs on 17/2/05 9:25PM
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dgs: "Why should I "know full well" about it?"

Um, because the re-negotiations were reported on drobe and elsewhere. See [link] and articles it links to.

"it was you that just dredged it up in your comment just above"

I know. I was just saying.

Chris. Just me

diomus on 17/2/05 9:40PM
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They better make DVD discs reading from Risc OS 3.70 up till the latest ROMS and NOT from Risc OS 4 upwards ONLY !!!!!

datawave on 17/2/05 9:49PM
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In reply to datawave:

Isn't it about time pre RO4 machines were annexed? It's no wonder the platform is in the it's current financial state with people still hanging on to old OS's

sa110 on 17/2/05 10:01PM
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Where the *#-*##!! does it say on the Select/Adjust feature list that they read DVDs? I changed my supplied DVD/CD drive last year for a bog standard CD drive as the original was playing up and now I am told the OS will read DVDs! Anyone done it yet?

Mart on 17/2/05 10:21PM
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diomus: That URL refers me to "past on-going disputes". When I move on to locate and read Drobe articles referenced there, I get "Castle conference transcript online", which offers nothing useful.

I then re-trace my steps, and try "Castle spills beans on ROL dispute".

I assume that is the Drobe article to which you refer. It mentions ROL failure to pass code back to Castle as only the third of three concerns. (My understanding is that failure to pay license fees was the primary, if not sole concern - I'm sure anyone can work out why failure to pay license fees might be a concern of the head license owner).

The article concerned is [link]

If so, it would've saved me both time and typing if you'd given that URL to begin with.

As far as I can see, that Drobe article doesn't suggest that RISCOS Ltd were asking for a "new license", but rather that Castle were keen for them to follow the terms of *any* agreed license.

One almost begins to wonder what it was that delayed RISCOS Ltd's programmers from doing their work.

dgs

dgs on 17/2/05 10:21PM
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In reply to dgs:

Perhaps their programmers had other contractual obligations and ROL simply had to wait for their time.

sa110 on 17/2/05 10:24PM
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datawave: I think RISC OS <4 can be considered obselete. The market has moved on since the mid-90s. Newer versions of RISC OS are not that expensive, especially if you keep an eye out on eBay. I certainly wouldn't consider using less than RO4, and upgraded my Risc PC to RO4 from RO3.7 as a priority when I got it.

AndrewDuffell on 17/2/05 10:32PM
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dgs: I've already explained why. See my first comment in this article. I note I don't read you wondering where RISC OS 5.09 is.

Chris. Just me.

diomus on 17/2/05 10:35PM
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Funny thing Chris is that RISC OS 5 has been upgraded several times, added UDMA, support for various USB-1 devices and a variety of other enhancements. We're currently at 5.08 and in what way does it differ from Select..... well it *costs nothing* for one.

So if 5.09 takes a year fine.... anyway the arrival (or not) of 5.09 has *nothing* to do with ROD's ability to supply Select on schedule. They either succeed or fail on their own merits. If they can't meet their own deadlines maybe the deadlines need to be lengthened.

AMS on 17/2/05 10:42PM
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diomus:

wtf?

RO 5.09?

so what do you know?

ROHC on 17/2/05 10:44PM
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This story has pre-empted my official announcement about the Foundation RISC User(*) DVD, which is really pretty irritating from my point of view. I was intending to announce it as soon as I was /ready/ to announce it.

The official announcement has been written but not sent out, and I have not yet provided Drobe (or anyone else) with any information about the DVD (Drobe will get a copy of the announcement at the same time as it's sent to everyone else). One or two details remain to be agreed. Once that's happened, the proper announcement will be made, giving all the appropriate details about the DVD, including which systems it'll run on.

But yes, it does exist, it should be announced soon, and it's the very first DVD-ROM for the RISC OS platform.

(*Pedants please note the capitalisation... the "RISC" in "Foundation RISC User" should be all-caps, just as in RISC OS itself.)

RichardHallas on 17/2/05 10:50PM
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@AMS: Well, I would certainly expect to get ROS5 updates for free, since AFAWK the developer did not pay the holder of the exclusive rights for the RISC OS desktop market any licence fees, either.

JGZimmerle on 17/2/05 10:57PM
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RichardHallas: That explains why we have had no information about this at The Icon Bar. It appears ROL have put a headline on their site though. [link]

AndrewDuffell on 17/2/05 11:18PM
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So Adjust can read DVD roms?

Why the F*** did they not STATE THAT WHEN IT WAS RELEACED.

Revin Kevin on 18/2/05 1:17AM
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Maybe RISC OS marketing secrets are not to be stated?

Sawadee on 18/2/05 1:21AM
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In reply to Andrew Duffell: That URL does exist, but when you click on the dvd newsline on ROL, it does NOT exist.

I know, that RO users have gone ahead, but I still like 3.70 and 3.71 better for my own needs.

datawave on 18/2/05 1:25AM
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In reply to sa110: I do NOT want RISC OS 4 yet !!!

datawave on 18/2/05 1:27AM
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To Revin Kevin: When die ROL ever sensibly state what the odd Select issue will offer or does offer. Up to now I never ever saw any information about what they offer as for RISC OS from the end user point of view. Yes, I know about that website with the technical things like "all references to Acorn removed" or "amended for new assembler" and such which increases the number of changes but has no benefit for the end user. So the question "what does RISC OS Adjust really offer for the end user opposed to RISC OS 3.7 or 4.0" is still a well-kept secret...

hzn on 18/2/05 7:10AM
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datawave: In that case you don't really have much of a basis to complain. If you use old versions of the OS then you don't get the latest features. Re: the link. Yes, I know that, but the headline is there.

AndrewDuffell on 18/2/05 9:14AM
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hzn: Yep, it's ludicrous - ROL have a page describing/promoting RISC OS 4 - why don't they have one for Adjust? In fact, a casual look at their website wouldn't even reveal that it existed!

adamr on 18/2/05 9:20AM
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Datawave:

A dealer who doesn`t want to use a recent version of his product sounds a little bit weird. When even dealers doesn`t believe in new RISC OS development why should users?

egel on 18/2/05 9:40AM
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Following on from what hzn and adamr have said, I posted a similar concern to the drobe forums:

[link]

Of course, the best advert for Select/Adjust would be to sit down and use it for a few hours and have a helpful user point out the new stuff. However, how many of us have a Select owner nearby? In fact, of those who have done this, how many have then gone on to subscribe?

-- Spriteman

Spriteman on 18/2/05 10:05AM
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Datawave> it would be interesting to hear the reasons you have for not wanting to upgrade.

jonix on 18/2/05 10:14AM
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I personally believe that anything before the most recent versions of RISC OS to be obsolete.

Consider them to Windows 95 (and at a push Windows 98)... Not in terms of functionality. But in terms of age, and the hype of newness..hear many people saying "ive just brought Windows 95!" - this is mostly how they get their money..Windows XP is due to be replaced this year! (according to their original plan)

If only I had the money..this latest version of RISC OS would be sitting in my SA RPC.

Great to hear about the DVD reading. :@P time to use the PC to make proper backups of my Box (get the whole disc onto 1 DVD ;@) )

em2ac on 18/02/05 10:27AM
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sa110: "Perhaps their programmers had other contractual obligations and ROL simply had to wait for their time."

That's certainly a lot more plausible than the other lame excuses being trotted out.

Regardless of the reasons, and despite attempts to lay the blame on others and all the rest of it, it's still an awful long time for no updates to be released. I let my Select subscription lapse the best part of a year ago. There are a lot of people in the same position, and this sort of situation is hardly going to encourage us to think about re-subscribing.

Sadly, that means less funds to develop Select, and thus a vicious circle. Select seems more and more in danger of being marginalised.

dgs

dgs on 18/02/05 11:01AM
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I thought cino\castle were working on a new DVD filer? Is this related to that or do we have another duplication of work between the two camps?

benc on 18/02/05 11:47AM
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RISC OS plain CDFS was always able to read DVD-ROMs as long as they are in ISO9660 format. Usually, they aren't (or use an ISO9660/UDF bridge format that CDFS can't handle), so it would have been incorrect to label RISC OS as "DVD reading capable".

If you need DVD reading capability, you don't have to wait for DVDFS/Cino either. Just buy CDROMFS and be happy.

BTW, I am very interested if the size of the DVD is less than 2 GB ;-)

hubersn on 18/02/05 12:08AM
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I don't understand why ROL haven't realeased some components for the Iyonix, - perhaps the image render modules and paint and draw, that would be enough to get some lapsed subscribers back on board.

jess on 18/02/05 2:17PM
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In reply to Jess:

Perhaps ROL are taking the "All or Nothing" approach. There again, they could just be leading all Iyonix owners up the garden path.

sa110 on 18/02/05 2:25PM
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According to the Select developers, the image renderer modules and Paint et al all eventually rely on the Select kernel. The sprite system hasn't been fully abstracted yet because it's so interwined. Plus also, in my view, organising a bits and pieces release for Iyonix users would be a nightmare, and distract from further development of a real Iyonix Select release.

Chris. Just me.

diomus on 18/02/05 2:26PM
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It's too harsh of dgs to dismiss as a lame excuse the time and money wasted in 2004 on discussions with solicitors. Far too much was wasted in that way but surely he wouldn't recommend that individuals ignore legal letters without getting legal opinion. I thought we had buried all this but dgs now seems to be blaming victims for being attacked. Not only that but then blaming them for being late with a product that he hasn't even ordered!

anon/83.104.47.124 on 18/02/05 3:25PM
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Jc: You're just repeating things that have been said earlier in the discussion. As I suggested, it's hardly likely that all of RISCOS Ltd's programmers spent most of a year in discussions with lawyers.

At the end of the day, either RISCOS Ltd can produce the product in a timely manner, or they can't. Blame games don't change that. If they can't produce the product because of the situation they're in, people are unlikely to re-subscribe.

dgs

dgs on 18/02/05 3:48PM
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If Adjust can read DVD's can it write to them too. I would like this easy option of backing up my harddrive.

anon/unknown via 194.60.106.5 on 18/02/05 4:22PM
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Perhaps dgs is misunderstanding me. He seems to be saying that 'blame games' aren't acceptable then doing the same himself. Can we accept that much was lost last year and there is now a new menu and a new timetable? Unlike dgs I am waiting for Select 4 as a paying customer and whilst I'd rather have had the goods for Christmas I find no reason to blame the programmers - quite the opposite.

anon/83.104.47.124 on 18/02/05 5:10PM
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Jc: "I find no reason to blame the programmers"

I'm not saying I "blame" the programmers nor anyone else. I'm just saying this is the situation we've seen, and that it is very unlikely to encourage re-subscriptions by those who've left the Select scheme. (Bear in mind that some of us subscribed for several years, it's not as if we've not contributed to the project quite heftily).

"Can we accept that much was lost last year and there is now a new menu and a new timetable?"

Unfortunately the new menu and timetable don't look a great deal different to the old one, particularly for those users with Iyonixes (an increasing proportion of the market now that they're a good deal more affordable). Vague promises intermixed with yet more rumours of splits and disagreements, doubtless to be blamed for yet more delays in due course.

A more positive and consistent approach would win back more Select subscribers. It's that simple.

dgs

dgs on 18/02/05 5:29PM
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Well all this argument about ROL and CTL is giving me a headache. Isn't this constant bickering more likely to drive people away from the market? Its certainly working for me :-(

Just what is the point of having a nice operating system if there are no majors advances in existing software or even new software to run on it?

The more I use my sons G4 Mac the more I like it, and it has some really great apps to use on it. I can now use my SCSI scanners again, which are not supported on the Iyonix. DVI output to the screen, firewire port for the camera. Easy to burn CD/DVD's. Very small virus problem. Easy peasy to set up the networking - I could go on....

Eddie on 18/02/05 7:14PM
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"According to the Select developers, the image renderer modules and Paint et al all eventually rely on the Select kernel. The sprite system hasn't been fully abstracted yet because it's so interwined."<snip>

Sorry? Isn't one of the oft touted advantages of Select over RO5 that is was somehow 'more' modular because of internal re-organisation?

How is it then that sprite handling/rendering is so hard to extract from the Select kernal making it so difficult to do anything with it for the Iyonix? Bad decisions made in the technical design/implementation phase? JC In the 'real world' don't people look at a product that has been brought to market and then decide on its merit before paying?

If there are delays then folk can decide to wait and see or buy something else rather than getting hot under the collar for the non-appearence of something they have already paid for.

blahsnr on 18/02/05 7:28PM
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to s.williams

Could it be that the rearrangement that has taken place in Select is the reason for things not working? They would need to rearrange RISCOS 5 first and Castle is not letting them do that.

to all ROL/ROD is now the one to blame, but remember Castle is also to blame. If we are back to square one they shoudl resurrect Merlin and work on it. Sofar both parties have said nothing so everything said here is just ... hot air.

anon/80.126.244.220 on 18/02/05 7:39PM
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In reply to Nico:

But don't we all like hot air? Or should be be, flaming fingers?

sa110 on 18/02/05 8:03PM
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In reply to Eddie

Thanks for posting a sensible reasoned personal view. A view that I totally agree with, the bickering, which I had hoped had been done away with, does our platform no favours. In my view it would be far better if we all worked together to further the cause of RISC OS in the wider world. I would also like to say that just because members of the public haven't seen the results of work does not mean that no work has been done. I am quite sure that all those involved in RISC OS Hardware, Software and OS development are beavering away on projects. Sometimes projects take quite a time to reach fruition and I think that there will be a number of exciting product releases coming in the next few months.

VirtualAcorn on 18/02/05 8:52PM
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Well said Aaron.

I don't concern too much about the bickering amongst our user frustrations, but I do find it un-necessary for the sub-standard level of "Put Downs" that can be quite publically rude at times towards each other.

Only bickering politely is enough to drive new RISC OS users away, yet alone the rest I mentioned. Technically clever comments accompanied by rudeness does not prove or win one's point in my books.

Politeness and helping one another without the abuse may really help the RISC OS platform work together better as Aaron points out the need for team work. Most of the very few RISC OS users I know do not use Drobe, but I did not need to ask them why?

I understand that by updating your RISC OS hardware and software it supports the platform better? I also can understand why DataWave does not rush out to update, incomplete updates may not be much more than what he currently has? This comment is not what I personally like, but it is just what I see and what I see is not a promised product or something behind the curtain.

I agree with Aaron that I am also hoping for some good devlopments soon. :-)

Sawadee on 19/02/05 06:40AM
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In reply to Sawadee:

You talk about incomplete updates, as a reason for DataWave not to upgrade, but what incomplete updates? RO4 is complete and has been available for some years now. RO Adjust is complete and has now been available for some months for people to upgrade to. Indeed ROL are about to release a softloadable version for non select users. Two fully complete versions of the OS widley available now. At the very least, all the active user base should be running RO4 with those who can afford it Select or Adjust. It's no wonder alot of the upto date features that everyone wants are not available when people stick to using what I'm guessing is now a 8-10 year old OS.

sa110 on 19/02/05 10:04AM
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diomus: "I note I don't read you wondering where RISC OS 5.09 is."

Hardly surprising! Both my Iyonixes are still running RISC OS 5.07.

I was offered 5.08 when I last upgraded them, but it was beta at the time so I declined. It certainly wasn't a year ago, either.

JGZimmerle: "I would certainly expect to get ROS5 updates for free"

I'm happy to ask Castle to send you free RISC OS 5 updates. You may need to make some small alterations to your Omega to get them to work, though :-)

dgs

dgs on 19/02/05 5:08PM
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Sawadee: That you made this comment at all demonstrates ironically the whole problem with the point you're trying to make.

You try to complain about "put downs", but so many problems have been caused by comments (of which far too many of yours are prime examples) which demonstrate a dangerous ignorance of subjects to which just a _tiny_ bit of effort, or listening to people other than yourself would rectify.

It's _these_ comments that cause damage to RISC OS, as they proliferate misunderstanding and resentment about things which aren't true. Fortunately, this is restricted to a small number of users, and for the most part these incidences are harmless, but it can be very hard to tell ahead of time, and there's plenty of past evidence for them.

As for "rudeness", I would think that many people might consider it rude to have corrected strongly held ideas, no matter how sugar coated the correctness - and to sugar coat too much often means the recipient misses the point. Should people correcting such things be worried about the short term damage to sensibilities of people who really couldn't be arsed to make an effort before spilling their random thoughts onto the keyboard? No, I don't think so.

Does "bickering politely" resolve differences? Sometimes. But other times, confrontation, and dare I say it, mild offence (and I don't mean in the sense of being insulting) is required to make people appreciate different viewpoints. I will highlight that I'm only repeating here what others have said about this.

You claim we should be helping one other - certainly. But I ask, what are _you_ doing? Hypocrisy doesn't help your point.

mrchocky on 19/02/05 8:33PM
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dgs:

erm run iyo upwatch 5.08 has now come out....

mrchocky:

leave sawadee alone - he represents an innocence that the rest of us have long since lost.

OK some of the stuff is questionable but he makes me smile at least

ROHC on 19/02/05 11:40PM
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Eddie:

"Just what is the point of having a nice operating system if there are no majors advances in existing software or even new software to run on it?"

I agree with that sentiment. I feel there's some cause for optimism though: RComp have been doing their bit recently, with significant updates to Messenger Pro, and the release of Hermes (new software). Fred Graute's efforts with StrongED are exciting too. And if you use Easi/TechWriter or ArtWorks 2, then there's likely to be something very interesting for you by the Wakefield Show.

More would always be welcomed though ;-)

Stewy on 20/02/05 00:05AM
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*In reply to sa110*

Sorry about that, "incomplete updates" are the wrong words I used when I was thinking about incomplete development on our platform. By that I was meaning to refer to a few features we would love on our platform? DVD, Media Player, a decent browser?

Peter. I can see and understand the frustration between all of us users, I admit my comments may not always be realistic or true or technically informed. Name calling, politeness and put downs publically here was my point and correctness does not give one the right to abuse no matter how incorrect anyone is. This suggestion could be a good start to a turning point in our abused platform? I agree with your concerns that misinformed comments may do great damage to RISC OS, and I for one take my hat off to you and many others on Drobe in appreciation for your inputs to help.

I have learnt an aweful lot from all you Drobe users since I got my computer on the net last 9 months, thanks.

In my teaching profession in New Zealand, I work in one of the highest rated difficult schools and having to work with very difficult children and in a community that equates similarly to the USA "Bronx". We deal with difficult children (and parents) every day and accept only Politeness and Aroha (Aroha is a NZ Maori word for love). It does not matter who is right or wrong, the teachers and the children work together to resolve a solution through Politeness and Aroha, unprofessional put downs abuse do not work.

Put downs and abuse do not personally affect or worry me where I come from, but my professional advice is just a suggestion. When I'm wrong I love to hear everyone's advice, but I will not listen when someone barks abusively. :grin:

Sawadee on 20/02/05 04:11AM
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