Best of 2005 awards voting open

Better late than never

• ArtWorks - Version 2.4 included some 40 improvements while 2.5 brought outstanding PDF generation to this vector graphics package.
  
• CDVDBurn - Burn files to CD and now DVDs with this media authoring package.
• Geminus - This year this graphics driver collection harnessed the Iyonix's PCI graphics card to accelerate screen operations, including cached redraws, icon plotting and line drawing. It also officially gained multi-monitor and screen rotation support.
• RiscCAD - Its author returned to RISC OS late last year to restart development work on RiscCAD. This 2D engineering design application is now up to release 10.
• RiScript 5 - Defying rumours of its death, this PostScript and PDF imaging application returned to the platform in style with a new website and new features.
• Messenger Pro - The email and news client gained an impressive built-in text editor and other features, such as 'tree view' support for messages.
• TechWriter and EasiWriter - The word processor duo gained various new features as well as bug fixes - including structure bars, object grid lines, enhanced Microsoft Word import, keyboard macros and more.
• UniPrint 2 - Use a Windows PC on your network or VirtualRiscPC to print documents created in RISC OS using this overhauled 'universal' printer driver.

• Avalanche VNC viewer - Plenty of updates and speed boosts to this much welcomed remote desktop management tool.
  
• Firefox - Eventually released this year in June, this heavyweight web browser port has shown improvement with each new beta version.
  
• Cocognut - Initially a commercial application, this peer to peer file sharing application was generously made available for free in 2005.
  
• GCCSDK - Developed and improved upon by numerous contributors through out the year, this compiler package can build applications written in C, C++ and other languages.
  
• NetSurf - This open source native web browser continues to grow and mature, rapidly addressing problems with websites and constantly fixing bugs and evolving.
  
• OpenTTD port - You need the original game data to play, but nevertheless, this strategy game port has entertained many users.
• PrintPDF - A user friendly interface to ps2pdf, opening up a straight forward approach to creating PDF files on RISC OS.
• Sargasso - Keep up to date with your favourite news and blog websites with this RSS client written in Python.
• Sourcery - A programming environment, now with improved makefile generation and greater support for GCC among other updates and tweaks.
• spc - In the new age of podcasting, this handy utility will download MP3s from web broadcasters and play them with DigitalCD.
• Sunfish - A reliable and capable NFS client has enjoyed various bug fixes and gained support for NFS v3.
• Thumbcat - Consistently treated to bug fixes and improvements, this utility can create HTML based galleries of images.
• Variations - An amazing piece of graphics manipulation software that you feel guilty for using for free. It's hard to keep up with the updates made to Variations this year, the best being a slideshow feature and direct image editing support.

• South West - show report - organised by John Stonier and the Wessex ARM user group.
• Wakefield - show report - organised by Chris Hughes and the Wakefield RISC OS Computer Club.
• European Expo - show report - organised by Aad Bezemer and the Big Ben Club
• South East - show report - organised by the Surrey And Sussex Acorn Users' Group
• Christmas road show - event report - organised by RISCOS Ltd.

• 3D OpenGL drivers - Ported from a BeOS related platform, this Nvidia driver presents to RISC OS the world of hardware accelerated OpenGL compatible 3D graphics.
• A9home - Powered by the compact 400MHz ARM9 S3C2440 processor and Silicon Motion SM501 chipset, this petite desktop computer is currently available to paying beta testers only, yet has been a much welcomed development for the platform.
• A3010 controlled central heating - Rather than toss this ARM250-era computer out with the trash, here's how real electronic engineers should keep their homes warm.
• Emulating the RISC OS environment - First came some noble work to get QEMU to implement RISC OS software interfaces. Then hot on its heels came a brave effort to do the same in Java. The source code for both projects are freely available for the adventurous to tackle.
• Miniature video camera - Utilising an existing network, this camera can stream live video to computers, including RISC OS powered machines.

• Chris Bazley - As well as other side projects, Chris breathed life back into Star Fighter 3000, encouraging many SF3K fans to revisit the retro space combat game.
• Paul Beverley - As the veteran editor of Archive, Paul has kept the pint sized monthly RISC OS-centric magazine rolling despite market pressures, whilst publishing a series of booklets and setting the standard for responsible journalism.
• Jonathan Marten - Jonathan kindly released a number of graphics applications, which were previously commercial, under an open source licence, allowing them to be made 32-bit compatible and picked up by the community.
• NetSurf contributors - Not content with merely collaborating to produce a native open source web browser, the team have spun off a number of satellite resources, including Tinct, Rufl and iconv, which can be used in other software projects.
• Martin Wuerthner - Developer of ArtWorks 2 and also the TechWriter family, Martin continues to successfully juggle development the two packages much to the delight of his users.

• Website false starts and finishes - The Cybervillage dropped its 'Acorn' name tag, went through a mild redesign, promised regular updates and a new team of writers, all before its new editor reportedly lost the FTP login password for the website. Similarly, riscos.org hogged its domain name for most of the year with a sparse handful of updates before switching to a weblog format, which was then ditched soon after.
• MicroDigital AWOL - Oh dear. Synopsis: After spending years designing a computer, ship the product to patient customers, at least one of whom is then less than impressed with the goods. Get taken to court, lose, appeal, lose, and then get sought by bailiffs much to the misery of the chap owed a four figure cheque.
• Oregano 2 exhaustion - The infamous web browser frequently checks for software updates from a central server maintained by developers Oregan. Over one weekend, the server fails, triggering a bug in Oregano 2 which causes it to improperly release operating system resources used for networking. The end result: Oregano 2 users find they can't use their Internet connections without regularly rebooting to cure the problem, until Oregan promptly fixes their server and Castle later issues a patch.

Links

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Discussion

I like the RISC OS style motto, "Better late than never". I guess in the RISC OS world, late can be a very long span of time. But when that time comes, the late than never goodies are rather nice. Sawadee on 24/12/05 11:28AM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Here's to less Own Goals and more good news in 2006: O3 released. RO 32-bit versions converge. VoIP reaches RISC OS It's Christmas - I can dream can't I? TonyStill on 24/12/05 10:59PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Right on there Tony, I'm dreaming for the same three choices. VoIP I have been using lately on my laptop. I use Skype just recently, it is quite good. I also signed up to MSN about a month ago but have not used it, I hear the other day that Google have something in the VoIP line too? Are there any better VoIP systems out there? It would be nice to have Skype on RISC OS, as well as it's Festoon VSkype video system. Now which Christmas dream may all that be? Sawadee on 24/12/05 11:40PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

IIRC Skype uses a non-standard protocol, IMHO we would be better off with an H.323 client.This way we would be compatible with NetMeeting (the standard VoIP application that comes with Windows), and have a wide selection of commercial gateways to the POTS (plain old telephone system) networks. JGZimmerle on 25/12/05 1:33AM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

What about Google Talk? Google have released the Jingle-Talk APIs now: [link] monkeyson on 25/12/05 12:37PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

H.323 and NetMeeting. Note sure that is a good choice as it does not work with devices behind a Nat firewall. Where as MSN Messenger and Skype do. Why not just get a straight phone on a VOIP enabled router does not need any development on RiscOS, its standards complient. Might cost a bit more but most Risc OS users seem to be well healed as they always seem to own several machines. Plus what in the Risc OS world is cheap Jwoody on 25/12/05 6:37PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Of course H.323 works with NAT, altough only one H.323 client works at the same time on the NATed network. The way around that problem is to use a gatekeeper. JGZimmerle on 25/12/05 11:02PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

What no Chocky? Surely he deserves to be included in the "Best general contribution". Peter has and continues to make a massive contribution to RISC OS on a number of levels including www.riscos.info, Firefox and the Unix Porting Project. knutson on 26/12/05 2:45AM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Yes I concur. He should be on the list, but I also noted that he wasn't thanked in the article after this for his contribution to Drobe earlier in the year. :| Shadow on 26/12/05 12:00PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

And lets not forget to thank the team behind Drobe for their contribution to Risc OS and its tiny band of followers. Well done to Chris and his team. Eddie on 26/12/05 3:38PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Has anyone heard anything from Peter Naulls recently? He hasn't updated his blog [link] for ages, and I havn't seen him on any mailing lists or RISC OS websites... Shadow on 26/12/05 3:40PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

I guess H.323 would be a good choice as it's standards-based, or perhaps something around SIP. Skype is likely (I guess) to be a non-runner because it is (as JGZ said) proprietary. I guess that the likes of Skype will likely grow gateways in the future, so the different standards will interwork even if they don't converge. As to a VoIP-enabled router: I just prefer to have these things on my computer and would like RO to gain this particular capability. TonyStill on 26/12/05 4:28PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

I think Skype is rapidly achieving a 'critical mass' and I don't see any real competition to it. Many of my friends already use Skype regularly - it's easy to use, free to download and free to use via VOIP. Never heard of H.323! Eddie on 26/12/05 5:12PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

These articles may be worth a browse: [link] [link] Shadow on 26/12/05 5:18PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Skype suffers from being proprietary and not able to be used to talk to other VOIP services. My router supports sip VOIP and is administered via a web browser (Firefox on RO is fine). I can talk to users of sip services other than my own (eg gizmo project). Any VOIP service need to have the option of cheap dedicated hardware, to be a serious alternative to the normal telephone network, otherwise your computer need to be on all the time. Gaim is supposed to be gaining sip support, so maybe that could be ported. jess on 26/12/05 5:54PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Presumably my enormous time contributions and significant financial sacrifices during 2005 aren't valued highly enough. But don't worry, that's all I've come to expect from the majority of RO users who sadly seem to value apathy and infighting above anything else - never mind that I handed RO the tools on a platter to change this situation. I'll leave it up to you as to how much I bother in 2006. mrchocky on 27/12/05 3:46PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

At least they noticed firefox. jess on 27/12/05 4:34PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

In reply to mrchocky: Your contribution is valued hugely - here at least. But you do appear, in the guise of Firefox; I know 'cos I voted for you. Your work has been hugely valuable, I'm sure (at least, I hope) no slight was intended. Please do keep up the good work. TonyStill on 27/12/05 4:40PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Yes but when will Firefox porting be complete? i.e. Non Beta. Jan 2007 perhaps. I aways get worried that Paul will get distracted by some new challenge and never finnish anything off. I see he has already made the source available for others is this a sign he has had enough of it. Jwoody on 27/12/05 4:41PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Who is this Paul? And who are these mystery contributers? Despite source availability of both the browser and various supporting libraries, there's been precious little contribution besides the ongoing efforts of others in the GCCSDK team and CX11 contributor Alan B. If you wish to go on about completion, talk to the Amiga OS porters - they have a whole team, not just one very underfunded person, and they still don't have anything to show. If you wish it to be complete, then you'll have to get involved. Tony: My contribution to RO during 2005 has been vastly more than Firefox releases. mrchocky on 27/12/05 4:50PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Oops Yes I meant Peter as in Peter Naulls rather than Paul, sorry for the frieudien slip up. Jwoody on 27/12/05 5:19PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Tony: Actually, since there seems to be some confusion over this matter, I'd like to clarify further. No less than _two thirds_ of the non-commerical software listed above relies directly or indirectly upon work I did - in some cases in a very substantial manner. I was also present at all but one of the RO events listed. The QEMU work mentioned, although originally done by Nick Burrett, was built on and released by me. Apart from that, in 2005 alone, I wrote a substantial number of articles over various contentious RO topics, in order to clarify matters. That was in addition to the literally hundreds of responses I made to help requests on usenet and mailing lists. Never mind that I also stood up to individuals who were hell-bent on spreading misinformation, and not to mention all the crucial work I did on libraries and tools besides GCCSDK that even made Firefox and the dozens of over ports I did possible at all, and set the scene for even novice developers to be able to get a foot up on contributing to RO - which it desperately needs. There's more, but I think I've made my point. I look forward to the poll being rectified. If you only want to vote on developers who are listed in the poll presently, then there's not much I can do, but don't let there be any argument over my contributions in 2005 to RISC OS. mrchocky on 27/12/05 8:59PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Well since it claims I've already voted, I'll just register my vote for you here. Certainly for me, firefox working on my iyonix is the most obvious success, but I trust all of the behind the scenes work is equally impressive. john on 27/12/05 10:20PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

john: John, and to anyone else who couldn't vote earlier: my apologies. I have been away from PHP for too long. A bug that overzealously checked usernames has been fixed and you should be able to vote now. With regards to Peter, the awards nominations can't be changed this late into the game as many people have now voted. Also, I stand by the nominations list and it will not change. I recognise the amount of stuff that Peter has tried to do this year, but I also wanted to highlight what others have done that has attracted praise and interest, particularly faces new to the spotlight because I like to encourage new people and development. Don't forget that Peter was nominated for this category last year and came second. And his projects this year were again nominated. I do wish you wouldn't take these things so personally, Peter. diomus on 28/12/05 12:51AM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

I'm welcome to take it personally, when in fact, personally it involved me so much. As for being in it last year - that's an odd comment, since indeed the winner last year is included again in this list - Martin W. - do you propose to drop him from the list? By all means include a "best new contributor" section - it would be a worthy award. However, I think it's more than fair to ask for due credit. As for not changing it, it's a shame you can't bring yourself fix the mistake. As it is, it looks rather like this was done purposefully, for whatever reason. Is it drobe's intention to run a poll which has an inaccurate result? mrchocky on 28/12/05 1:04AM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Whilst I'm trying not to prejudice the voting process by explaining this, MartinW was picked again because he continues to ship finished products that people have given their thumbs up to. As for the rest of it, I just cannot believe you're trying to brow beat an independent awards service into 'fixing the mistake' of leaving you out - even though your work has been nominated in other categories. It is precisely this attitude of yours that just totally obliterates any goodwill generated by your programming efforts - and that's truly sad. diomus on 28/12/05 1:28AM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Why are you contradicting yourself? You said you wished to award "new faces - but neither Martin nor Paul are that. You've yet to explain why I was left out - saying that I'm "brow beating" is rather odd, since I've mentioned it after the fact, not before - the situation is not of my making. As for finished products, I'm happy to point to plenty of those, but look carefully at the name of the category - "efforts to the community as a whole" - which is precisely what I did all year, and is a long way from just programming. "my work has been nominated in other categories" - actually, my name isn't even mentioned at all, despite what I said above about my involvement. It certainly wasn't clear until my above comments to many people that I might have done so much. I still look forward to an explanation of why I was ommited - at the moment, I can only guess that it's some kind of personal antagonism towards me. If there is truly someone who has contributed more than me in 2005, please name them so they can properly be thanked; if not, I again ask for due respect for my efforts. mrchocky on 28/12/05 1:40AM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

MrChocky: Look, you're going to look silly now. I said "particularly faces new". That first word implies preference not exclusivity. "Browbeat" is the right word to use because you're trying to change the nominations list after they were published - look it up: [link] Next up is the fact that no one in the software categories are named because people should judge the software, not the author. You also point out that you have written articles and made mailing list posts, which is nice, but so have many other people. According to the drobe database, you wrote 7 articles this year out of the 270-odd that were published. All articles are warmly welcomed, but how is that "substantial"? Finally, and here's the kicker - it is my opinion that the contributions of the people nominated are just as good as your contributions outside of the GCCSDK and Firefox (which are both nominated and both contain features contributed by other developers, I'll hasten to add). Please, take a leaf from the book of whoever wins the 'best general contribution' this year - you might learn a little humility in time for New Year's Eve 2006. diomus on 28/12/05 2:12AM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Call it browbeat as you wish (I could call what you're doing browbeating, but I won't), but you still miss the point - my objection is _after_ the fact - it is a valid remonstration. I was excluded from the list for reasons you haven't named, but are apparently now trying to make up to justify your ommision (deliberate or otherwise). But you don't seem to have read very much of what I said - for my mailing list posts, the majority of mine were answers to questions from others - did others answer as many questions - perhaps, but not many. But that's just one thing I did. Articles? I count around 20, some quite lengthy, as well as updating some older ones to make them current. All development contains "contributions by others", except a limited number of pure ARM programs, of which there aren't many. That is the nature of development, so that's hardly a valid point. Martin is updating programs written by someone else, and much of the work recently published by Paul was written by others. It may be your opinion about my contributions (for reasons you haven't named), but again you contradict yourself - it's a poll, not "Chris's picks of 2005". I must say I am deeply disappointed at this situation. No doubt I do look silly to some, but that is the nature of standing up for myself. mrchocky on 28/12/05 2:40AM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

In reply to diomus: Voting Works PERFECTLY, i just voted. datawave on 28/12/05 2:50AM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

I'll let the users have the final say: [link] mrchocky on 28/12/05 05:28AM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Is it too late to nominate Drobe in the best own goal category for forgetting Peter? jess on 28/12/05 11:52AM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

If drobe is being nominated for the Top Own Goal category, perhaps it also deserves a nomination for Best General Contribution too? flypig on 28/12/05 12:32AM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

May I suggest that next year's awards include a 'write-in' entry for the person/product/service/other that those voting consider of special merit but which does not appear in the fixed categories. It seems unfortunate that Chocky did not appear this year but it is easy to make mistakes and omissions. This scheme would seem to be a safety net for any such problem in the future - whatever the root cause. Personally, I see my vote for Firefox, as Chocky's highest profile contribution, as a vote of appreciation for *all* he's done. TonyStill on 28/12/05 1:29PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Tony: I'd prefer to be referred to as "Peter", thanks. But I don't really think such missing me out is such an easy mistake to make - I'm hardly invisible. As for Firefox, and as per the article I wrote, the redress I'd like is the best general contributor catgeory - having Firefox alone nominated falls a long way short of recogising what I've done. mrchocky on 28/12/05 3:55PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

I think most readers will now realise that there has been a falling out between Peter and Chris, and that seems a likly reason for why Peter no longer contributes to Drobe, and why Chris as ommited him from both the "awards", and his thanks in the article after this one. It really is sad that people sink to this level, and as many people have said, this is what is driving the RISC OS community apart. The pettyness of people on Usenet, Mailing lists, Drobe vs Peter Naulls, Drobe vs The IconBar is what is ultimatly causing people to leave RISC OS, or avoid it to start with. Some people really need to grow up, and stop holding grudges. Shadow on 28/12/05 4:27PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Funny how Microsoft vs Netscape and Adobe vs Macromedia hasn't driven away Windows users from that platform. I think you'll find it's the failings of the average RISC OS system that drives people away, not to mention sagas such as the fabled Omega, and not personal disagreements. arenaman on 28/12/05 8:25PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

In reply to Chris: Why don't you mention Peter Naulls in your awards voting Program ie. like BEST GENERAL RISC OS WRITER, you actually have to mention Peter Naulls in it as well, because he has done in 2005 MORE for the RISC OS Society than anyone else by writing a MARVELLOUS piece of Software in the form of a new RISC OS browser IMHO !!! In reply to Peter: WELL DONE !!! datawave on 28/12/05 11:46PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

arenaman: If you look at it more thoroughly, the MS vs Netscape and Adobe vs Macromedia really brought the Windows platform forward because these disagreements actually spurred people to do more than the other and try to do it better. Microsoft for example didn't completely remove their website when Netscape fans started calling Bill Gates names. The personal feuds we've been witnessing here on Drobe and elsewhere do absolutely nothing of that sort. This petty bickering between considerably high profile persons in the RISC OS community doesn't seem to stimulate any development or competition, it only serves to annoy others that repeatetly have to witness it on public forums. It gets tiresome rather quickly to see a couple of supposedly adult people behave like a couple of five year olds again and again and when these people are considered to be part of the "best general contributors" to the platform that has been fighting for its life for the past few years it's easy to see why some may start wondering if being a part of this is actually worth while. After all, most people see computers as tools and there's nothing that RISC OS can do that other operating systems can't do. If you can't get a piece of software on the other operating systems there's always going to be someone willing to write it and if there's market for it on RISC OS it's very unlikely that there's no market for it on Windows for example. So Peter, Chris and others, if you dislike someone or have a need to argue about personal preferences on a five-year-old level, keep it between yourselfs and off these public forums. You know it does absolutely no good for neither you or the platform you have grown to love but only serves to drive people away. Gulli on 29/12/05 12:10AM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

arenaman: Any personal disagreements may not drive people away but they do undermine one of the platforms strengths - being perceived to have a friendly and helpful community. markee174 on 29/12/05 12:32AM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

I can't help having an odd feeling about not seeing Peter's name in the "Best general contribution" category. I realise that Chris has covered himself by saying that "Drawing up the list of nominations was a tough job and if something or someone isn't listed, this doesn't necessarily mean we don't care or that we forgot" but the issue is, IMHO, that the contribution of several key RISC OS developers are not always that well known and recognised by the complete RISC OS community. *Drobe* may know about these contributions and value them but not necessarily the general RISC OS user and that's purely because they are not (enough ?) being told and explicitly being made aware of. I still witness this regulary when talking about the latest RISC OS news in our riscos.be club meetings. The RISC OS development scene is extremely vunerable these days and I hate to see further disruptions leading to even less cooperation or involvement. It is an after the facts suggestion but two categories "Best general contribution for new comers" and "Best general re-contribution" would probably be been the best. joty on 29/12/05 1:19PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Gulli: From _my_ perspective, this has nothing to do with "personal preferences" or whatever terminology you care to use. I've already made my case very clear indeed - read what I wrote above in the article. In short, my admission from the list is at best, anomalous. At worst, well you can make your own extrapolations. As it is, the poll is far from "independent" or accurate. Why would I be quiet about this - there have already been far too many incidents in RISC OS where things have been misrepresented, and users have been burned. And if we don't properly recognize those who really are contributing (I named a number of others in my article), rather than just making a lot of hot air, then don't wonder why in 2006, only the hot air remains. mrchocky on 29/12/05 3:38PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Oh good grief people. Grow up. This is supposed to be the season of goodwill and Chox+co has managed to spoil the party once again by turning a rejoicing of RISC OS 2005 things in to a personal rant and soapbox. Give it a rest, guys! imj on 29/12/05 4:37PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

While it is sad to see such spats (really), I think it reinforces my general feeling of disquiet at such "awards". They give scope for insult/injury and general unfairness and can only cause disruption of the sort seen here. If there'd been either (a). No award or (b). If the nominations had been more "transparent" then some of these issues could have been avoided. I don't know why Peter was excluded from this list (there may well have been other notable omissions as well worthy of comment), point is that I think Peter *does* have a fair reason for feeling slighted. Granted hollering about it publically may not be the best way of handling it - but then the nomination list in which his name was *excluded* was just as public. I can't believe it is beyond the wit of the people running Drobe to come up with a *fair* and *transparent* nomination process - at least then whatever is the outcome all involved can feel at least they were given a *fair* chance. That notwidthstanding I do believe awards create more problems than they solve..... perhaps this current situation is all the evidence needed to prove that point. AMS on 29/12/05 7:24PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

mrchocky: Award nominations are ALWAYS going to be "personal preferences", be it the preferences of one individual or a group of individuals. If Chris or whoever came up with these nominations didn't feel that you or others would warrant such a nomination then tough luck, get over it. Whining about it like a spoilt brat isn't going to change their minds and certainly isn't going to do you any good nor further your cause in any way. I personally think your contribution is absolutely astounding and way beyond anything that could ever be asked for but your incredibly immature attitude is really getting weary and at some point you have to start considering wether that has something to do with your omission from these nominations. That is the very last I have to say on this matter because I feel this has gone way off topic. Gulli on 30/12/05 01:39AM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Who's whining here? This is a valid protest, and attempts to call me childish, as people so often try and do (and only look so themselves when they do it) do not change anything. If you want to argue against my protest, then respond to what I've said, not name calling, and not hypocrisy. I was excluded from the list because Chris decided to do so - no more, no less. More then enough people have questioned this decision to give my protest plenty of weight, whether or not you agree with whether or not I might win such an award. As I already stated, if people aren't properly recognised, then they simply won't bother. We've already seen plenty of _that_ in 2005. mrchocky on 30/12/05 02:43AM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

I don't think that too many people are disagreeing with you, in that you should've been on the list, but it's the nature of your reaction that they are reacting to. SimonC on 30/12/05 02:48AM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Which nature would that be? I have posted a valid protest, which has not been responded to in any constructive way. In fact, I've received a great deal of abuse because of my insistence on standing up for myself - I'm not the one name calling. If you have a better way to resolve the issue, I'm interested to hear it. As it is, I suspect there isn't any equitable way to reach a resolution. mrchocky on 30/12/05 03:25AM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Personally, I don't really see there being an issue to resolve. If Chris didn't decide to nominate you, then that was his decision and you have to live by it. Certainly he is under no obligation to include you and to suggest otherwise seems to indicate you have a rather inflated sense of self-importance. Walks on 30/12/05 10:59AM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

It wasn't Peter who brought up his omission from the list first. However it occurs to me that Mr Spellings and Mr Tyrell both deserved an entry too. jess on 30/12/05 12:33AM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Not Spellings, but Lees. And Geminus is indeed there. As is the A9. So I'm not quite sure what you're angling at, Jess? After some thought, I agree that Chox should be in there. In the "Top own goal" section. imj on 30/12/05 1:14PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

But by that logic MW should not be in the contributor list because artworks is in another category. Just seems a little more thought, or the option of nominations would have been better. jess on 30/12/05 3:54PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

jess: It looks like there was the option for nominations. It was mentioned at the end of the article just prior to this one. (Here: [link] ). flypig on 30/12/05 6:01PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

mrchocky: Who's been calling you names on this thread? I certainly haven't as you indicate with your reply. Please keep such innuendo to yourself unless you have some grounds for it. Gulli on 30/12/05 7:47PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Gulli: "Whining like a spolied brat". Was that someone else? Sadly, Walks has to join in too. It's just lovely how so many of these insults come from armchair crtiics who don't appreciate how difficult RISC OS contribution is, and have contributed nothing or little themselves. Ian: Yes, top own goal: Give RISC OS one of the most important apps ever, as well as technologies that make many more possible in the future and in doing so compromise myself financially. Provide endless help for people asking questions. Explain in clear terms a number of important RISC OS topics. Stand up to the liars and cheats. And all the other things I listed in the article. And for what? To get called names (certainly plenty from you), don't get properly recognised, and generally waste my own time and energy on people, who in a significant number of cases, really don't give a shit about anything but stirring. So yes, very much an own goal. mrchocky on 31/12/05 3:42PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Peoples understanding of the difficulties in contributing to RISC OS or whether they have contributed anything themselves, is irrelevant. People are criticising you due to your attitude, not due to your contributions. Whether people recognise your contributions or not is entirely up to them. But it is very arrogant to assume that people should by default. Walks on 31/12/05 7:30PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Walks: And I'll keep repeating it - I'm not the one name calling - that's you. I'm glad you thinking insulting me adds something useful to this debate. And you've done it again by calling me arrogant. But I've assumed nothing - in fact, I made my list of contributions very explicit, so there really would be no confusion. I recognise how obscure some of what I have done is, and often requires explanation. mrchocky on 31/12/05 9:33PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

"whining LIKE a spoilt brat" is a description of your behaviour not name calling - unless you have redefined the English language to suit your claims. From www.dictionary.com (not a proper English English dictionary I know but will most probably do): "like2 P Pronunciation Key (lk) prep. <strong>Possessing the characteristics of; resembling closely; similar to.</strong> In the typical manner of: It's not like you to take offense. In the same way as: lived like royalty. Inclined or disposed to: felt like running away. As if the probability exists for: looks like a bad year for farmers. Such as; for example: saved things like old newspapers and pieces of string." Gulli on 01/01/06 02:46AM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

Gunnlaugur>Yes you're right - you're describing (colourfully) what you consider Peter's behaviour to be. While I wouldn't characterise his behaviour in that way - all I'd say is he is publically complaining over a slight he perceives to have suffered. He is IMHO quite entitled to do that. I'd also add it *does* seem a bit "odd" that his name was not included in the awards. If porting Firefox and doing sterling work on GCCSDK is not enough to get someone into the nominees list just exactly what herculean task *IS* sufficient to do so then? As I said before Awards are the most effective way of sowing division and creating arguments (we've had enough of those this year IMHO). If Awards are to be *ever* done again then they had better start with an open and fair nomination process - otherwise we'll face this sort of rubbish again in 2006. AMS on 01/01/06 4:56PM [ Reply | Permalink | Report ]

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