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The new apple of my eye

By Martin Hansen. Published: 17th Nov 2008, 16:33:52 | Permalink | Printable

Would you swap your dusty Acorn for a polished Apple computer? Martin Hansen has been checking out the world of Steve Jobs and his range of shiny kit.

There's a confession I need to make right away: I'm not typing this article on my trusty Iyonix. I'm using a brand new Apple MacBook Pro. "Oh God!" I hear you cry, "Hansen's left the fold." Well, not yet but, like Adam in Eden, I'm being tempted.

As my daughter's birthday coincided with this year's Wakefield show, I missed the premier event on the RISC OS calendar. However, being a subscriber to RISCOS Ltd's Select scheme, I received a CD of the show release of RISC OS 6, (aka Select 4i4) a couple of days later. I immediately began getting to grips with this significant upgrade, and did a review half done, but my interest was hijacked by adventures in the land of apples. Apple computers, that is.

First, let me make it clear that this state-of-the art machine upon which I am typing is not mine. It belongs to Helen, my partner, who some of you met at the Guildford RISC OS show in 2006. There she proved to be particularly adept at selling copies of the MathMagical Sudoku program. I mention this because I want you to understand that Helen has known for some time that alternatives to Windows exist. Alas, when it came to replacing her aging Windows machine, I just could not persuade her that an Iyonix would do. This is not to say that my Iyonix has never impressed Helen. We frequently use it to slim down material that she is sent for posting on her work-related website, and we once used it to hack a Powerpoint file. The stark fact is, alas, that the Iyonix, launched at the Midlands show on November 30, 2002, is five and a half years old. Helen wanted an up-to-date machine.

As we asked around we realized that, between us, we had three friends who had recently bought a computer. This rather confirms recent news reports that, in spite of the credit crunch, IT products are selling well. One friend, a medical researcher, had bought a windows laptop for his 16 year old daughter. Another friend, a clinical psychologist, an Apple MiniMac as the family machine. The third, a graphics designer, an Apple MacPro desktop machine for his marketing partner. Thus, although we had ruled out a machine that ran RISC OS natively, we were aware that many people are looking into what Apple has to offer. So, we did too.

For my part, I knew that Virtual Acorn, following many requests at the various RISC OS shows, had released a version of their RiscPC emulator for Apple's shiny machines. I have VirtualRiscPC running on my daughter's Windows desktop machine and I know it is an excellent substitute for the real thing. Helen and I were both keen on the idea of a laptop. Whether Windows or Apple, via emulation, I could have the latest version of RISC OS running as fast on a modern laptop as it did on my Iyonix, if I wanted it.

After checking the state of her bank account, Helen decided that it was worth making the fifty mile trip to the Apple store in Birmingham. If they could impress, she could buy. For me, walking into the shop was a real eye opener. The place was buzzing with people clustering around the twenty or so active machines on display. I joined a crowd around a large table where punters were playing on four of the new Air laptops. This device is incredibly lacking in thickness. "Where is the room for the battery?" a perplexed customer asked me. I was at a loss to answer. I think we are probably all familiar with walking into a box-shifter Windows computer store and having a frustrating conversation with the Saturday lad who knows nothing about half of the products he is trying to sell. Apple sell a less diverse range, which makes it easier to know more about what is for sale but, even so, they obviously train their staff very carefully. Helen and I were soon deep in conversation with a sales assistant, called Junior, who certainly knew his stuff.

Helen had prepared a long list of questions concerning the ease with which she would be able to switch from being a Windows user. It was one hell of a step into the unknown for her, and she was well aware that, at 1,400 quid, it could turn out to be a very expensive mistake. For work she would have to be able to continue to send and receive Microsoft Word, Excel and Powerpoint files. She would need to be able to continue to manage her website, for which she currently used Dreamweaver. Her internet surfing had to cope with YouTube, Facebook, Ebay, Amazon and have the ability to access, via the web, the Blackboard virtual learning environment. Windows Vista users had been running into problems in doing this recently. Straight-forward desktop publishing would be required plus, of course, email.

Beaten track
I got the impression that the questions we asked were ones that Junior had fielded many times and one by one we were shown, on the MacBook Pro laptop between us, that none of them would be a problem. In order to keep my ten-year-old daughter interested we talked for a bit about computing in the old days. What wonders would she come to see in her lifetime? She had recently noticed some impressive drag-and-drop in the film Iron Man. Junior had been a Spectrum user and new a lot about the BBC Micro. Yet when I mentioned RISC OS he scratch his head: 'Never heard of it, mate'.

Rather than purchase Microsoft Office for the Mac, Helen bravely decided to go for iWorks which contains three applications, Pages, Keynote and Numbers which are, respectively Word, Powerpoint and Excel file-compatible products. She was pleased to learn that Dreamweaver was available on the Mac, although not sold by the Apple store.

Our sales assistant was very keen to show us the MacBook Pro's dexterity in intelligently and effortlessly managing large photographic and video collections and I was impressed with the ease with which a video clip slide show with sound could be rustled up. OK, it was a rehearsed party piece, but as I'm working with video clips on RISC OS at the moment, it was of more interest to me than might have otherwise been the case. While we were being served, I noticed two desktop machines being sold. It was like being at one of the frantic RISC OS shows from days of old; I guess the Apple store is like this every weekend.

A couple of minor shortcomings caught my attention which I'll mention here least you think we were too easily wowed by Junior, our likable salesman. I was surprised that a screen resolution of 1280 by 1024 pixels was not available. Apple laptops can match this horizontally but not vertically where they tops out at around 800 pixels. This is exacerbated by the icon bar running along the lower edge of the screen, as in does in RISC OS, and a Mac OS 'feature' that prevents application windows from covering it. They slide down behind it instead. Under RISC OS this space is routinely made available to resized or dragged windows and is effortlessly regained when required, as I explained along with several other tricks and tips in a previous drobe article. As a workaround, Mac OS X makes it possible to run the icon bar down either side of the (wide) screen but, even so, having got used to a 1280 by 1024 screen over the last five years, having less was going to be a step backwards.

Another small gripe: American-English is foisted upon the user. If sold in England, surely the machines should be set up with English-English as the default? For example, I've just checked what screen resolutions are available on this laptop and the word 'color' is all over the place and causing considerable irritation. In this Pages Wordprocessor, 'colour' gets highlighted as being spelt incorrectly and, after a ten minute faff around, it's not obvious to me how to switch to UK-English, if indeed that's an option.

It is also very strange to only have, effectively, a one button mouse. To my surprise, Helen liked the laptop's finger pad with which one guides the mouse around the screen. It was, she explained, much bigger than any she had tried before. I just smiled. As I use Pages to type out this article, I'm finding that I keep wanting to click menu to cut and paste. This even although I looked up 'cut and paste' in the slim user's guide over a week ago and grasped that the Mac way of doing this is via a couple of keyboard shortcuts. Not as good as RISC OS there, then.

These are, of course, minor quibbles, and, after a good hour and a half in the shop, I had no problem in endorsing Helen's decision that the MacBook Pro was the computer for her. Another one sold.

Happy days are here for Apple. They managed to get a new operating system, Leopard, out at the start of the year, having previously launched the iPhone which, let's face it, is one of the most desirable, albeit also amongst the most expensive, mobile phones currently on the market. True, a slowing in the rate at which iPod sales were growing took the shine off the value of Apple shares at the start in 2008, but these are now back up following the successful launch of their ultra thin Air laptop and surging desktop and laptop sales.

Virtually a done deal
All of which makes Virtual Acorn's move in getting a Mac version of their RiscPC emulator out a timely move. For me, paying 119 quid for the emulator is not currently on the cards as I am already a Select subscriber, already have an Advantage Six Windows machine running the emulator and have an Iyonix and three StrongARM Risc PCs knocking around the place. I'm also not sure what I could say about it running on a Mac in a review. It's RISC OS. It does what RISC OS does. What I will say is that if I had no other access to RISC OS then the Virtual Acorn product would be seen as a god-send and on my list of absolutely essential purchases.

Although I am liking the Mac, I am aware that without software like Draw, Paint, BBC BASIC and TechWriter, to name but four bits of software in daily use here, most of what I do on a computer would grind to a halt. Curiously, having a Mac in the house is inspiring me to start finding out more about what software is available for it. And I don't doubt that I'll be spending time exploring the Mac landscape over the months to come. Irrational as it is, l have never felt any desire to do this with Microsoft products.

New learning curve
I shall finish with a few comments about how I, a seasoned RISC OS user, reluctant Windows user, but absolute Apple novice, am getting along with the new machine.

The first thing that strikes you with the MacBook Pro laptop is the quality of the thing as a physical object. It is a beautiful thing to hold and to handle. It powers up quickly with many standard applications already on the iconbar, waiting to be clicked and explored. I already had a wireless router in the house which the machine found effortlessly and within ten minutes of getting the laptop out of the box, I had the drobe website on screen via the built in web browser, Safari. This browser is excellent and has had no problem accessing any of the sites on Helen's list, mentioned earlier.

A desire to copy a photograph from a website, and paste it into the Keynote application proved to be problematic. Highlighting the photo and then dragging and dropping it did not seem to work. I don't doubt that there is an easy way of doing this, but it was not intuitively obvious to either of us. Eventually we found that by first copying it, then pasting it into Pages followed by a further copy and then paste into Keynote worked. (Using those keyboard key codes for cut and paste !) The manuals that come with typical Apple products seem very lightweight to me, and even the 25 quid extra book we bought, Leopard: The Missing Manual was of little help with this particular issue.

The Mac OS X desktop is, however, very slick, robust and solid. I don't think that anyone who has used RISC OS (or for that matter Windows), would have any difficulty in driving it. Like the case, it is polished, elegant and refined. In operation, it tries to intelligently anticipate what you are likely to want to do next. On the one hand this takes the pressure off a user to, for example, organize their folders and files methodically: the machine does it for you. On the other hand, this has made me feel that I don't quite know what is going on under the surface. It will be interesting to see if this feeling passes as I get more used to the Apple way of doing things.

When I first had contact with the Apple machine, I did feel a wave of resigned depression sweep over me. The slickness and sophistication of the product is awesome. It's also great to wander into WH Smiths, for example, and see two or three Mac magazines on sale, browse through them, and buy if there is an idea or article that captures your interest. The whole Apple thing is a reminder of where RISC OS once was and still should be: a viable, cutting edge alternative to Windows.

As I've started to get to know the Mac laptop more I am starting to realise that it's not so much 'better' than RISC OS, as simply 'different'. RISC OS remains an enthusiasts OS for amateurs and hobbyists who like tinkering with the guts of their machine. The RISC OS community is small, snug and friendly while still achieving some quite remarkable things with minimal resources. I don't see myself making a switch, but a merge is taking place. The good thing is that I don't feel as if I am being assimilated, unlike my experience with Windows. I hope Apple continue to do well, and they are certainly making modern day computing more interesting through their innovative products. I'm pleased, Helen and I have got an Apple in our garden.

Got an opinion? Let us know or post a comment below.

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I remember spending a could 10 minutes trying to work out how to rename a file in the Finder in Mac OS X before resorting to the command line. Apparently, you need to click on the "Get Info" menu item in order to "Set Info" like the file name. STAB STAB STAB.

 is a RISC OS Userrjek on 17/11/08 4:41PM
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To rename a file you just double click (slowly) on the current name then type in the new one. Same as RISC OS with... <forgets name of add on>.

 is a RISC OS Userfreder on 17/11/08 5:26PM
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How user-friendly, intuitive, and obvious!

 is a RISC OS Userrjek on 17/11/08 6:17PM
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You can now run OpenOffice on the Mac (and very nice it is too) if you need a general package.

 is a RISC OS Usermarkee174 on 17/11/08 5:31PM
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The rather odd way to rename a file is to click on it once and then press enter. Surprisingly, it doesn't open the file!

My MacBook Pro is the perfect complement to my Iyonix. I've not spent a single weekend fixing computers in the last 2 1/2 years!

 is a RISC OS Userksattic on 18/11/08 2:33AM
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I love my Mac Book and OSX is a dream to use. Out of the box I was able to download photos from my Canon EOS 400D camera, edit, store and share via email, facebook, create a DVD and print from the excellent iPhoto application.

I do agree that the screen resolution issue is a minor annoyance but not enough to put me off.

The only other issue I have is that Safari doesn't work with a small minority of websites, oddly enough it is usually drop down lists that don't work. Fortunately Firefox does.

Microsoft Office 2008 is excellent and far better than the Windows version in my opinion.

 is a RISC OS Userstevek on 18/11/08 5:37AM
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Very interesting read, not in the least because it's written from the point of view of a RISC OS user. Besides, I love reading Martin's articles!

While iWork is a very capable suite of Office apps, its file compatibility with MS Office is not 100% for obvious reasons. I guess it's comparable with OpenOffice in that department. Of course, MS Office for Mac is fully compatible with its Windows counterpart, including workflow.

Apple moved to widescreen displays early on, for various reasons. To tell the truth, I'm not even considering moving back to the old square non-widescreen modes! Regarding the MacBook - it indeed tops out at 1280x800 pixels, but the 15" MacBook Pro as mentioned in the article has a native resolution of 1440x900, I believe. A 17" MBP is on the cards with a higher resolution. All Macs also have a DVI output to drive an external screen. However, Mac OS X allows icons and the Dock to be scaled at the users' preference, which may help. I guess a system (Unix terminal) hack is possible to allow windows to cover the Dock, but there's also a GUI option to hide the Dock until the pointer approaches it. That way a user can use all the screen space, except for the menu bar at the top.

Every user with an account can choose their own systemwide language, including British English. Every installed app will then use it, if available. To change the spelling, look in one of the menu options in the menu bar or right-click inside a text field. Look for the 'Spelling...' entry. Indeed, one can right-click on a Mac since the dawn of Mac OS X in 2001, but Apple standardised it since 2005. Even the new MacBook (Pro) glass trackpads will detect a right click, or up to four fingers simultaneously. The trackpad is the button, so perhaps it takes a little getting used to. Cut & Paste is possible via keyboard shortcuts, but also by right (or Control) clicking inside a text field which opens a contextual menu. In Safari, one can simply drag off any website image and drop it in in a Finder window or into another application, just like RISC OS. In fact, many Mac OS X operations can behave quite similarly to RISC OS operations, including moving windows (or scroll bars) without raising them to the front of the window stack. Just hold the Command key to do this.

Overall, it's quite educational to explore the system with the built-in Help app, which can always be accessed via the Help menu entry at the far right of the menu bar. By the way, Leopard wasn't released at the start of this year, but in fall 2007. In my opinion, an Apple Macintosh is probably the most suitable system for any RISC OS user in need of a modern supplement, because of its overall similarity to an Acorn computer - regarding both hardware and software (OS).

 is a RISC OS UserhEgelia on 19/11/08 12:25AM
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On some of the points in the article:

* Resolution: You say you bought a Macbook Pro but say the resolution of the built-in display is limited to 1280x800. This would imply that you have in fact bought a regular Macbook, not the Pro model. However, the £1400 you mention will indeed buy a base model 15" Macbook Pro. The 15" Macbook Pro runs at 1440x900 resolution, not 1280x800; this suggests that you are for some reason not running the machine in the correct native resolution, which will lead to relatively poor display quality due to scaling.

* A note on resolution: You are constrained by the LCD panel resolution of the hardware itself. The vast majority of all laptops are sold with 16:10 screens these days. If you really do have a MacBook Pro then it includes a dual-link DVI connector for an external monitor. You can drive up to 2560x1920 pixels (e.g. a giant 30" Dell or Apple LCD monitor) at 32bpp using a dul-link DVI cable, or over DisplayPort, if you're on the very-very-new MacBook Pro with the black keys. You have the usual range of display options for arranging the built-in LCD vs external display, or only using one of them, with the laptop switching automatically when the display is attached or detached (just as Windows can).

* Dock: The Dock can be made to auto-hide so you only see it when you move the mouse pointer to the bottom (or left, or right) edge of the screen. Go to the Apple menu, Dock -> Turn Hiding On, or do it via the Dock panel in System Preferences, or by the pop-up Dock context menu (right-click on an unused bit of dock - the separator between the applications and TinyDir-style file icons is a popular choice).

* American English is not mandatory :-) There's an annoying tap-dancing to get the system and dictionary set to UK English; this is stupid for a UK-sold computer, but that's the way it is. Go to System Preferences, the International panel, and the Language tab. There's a list of languages on the left. Click on "Edit List..." and tick the "British English" option to add it to the list, if it isn't already (whether or not this is set up depends upon choices you made when you first booted the computer and got taken through the first-time setup screens). Click on "OK" to save your edited list. Back in the Language tab of the International settings pane, make sure that British English is dragged to the top of the list, if it is not already. For extra credit: Go to the Formats tab and make sure that "United Kingdom" is set for the formats menu too. With this done you'll have a UK-English system dictionary and grammar checker, although there are still a few missing "u"s in a few places, showing that not all Apple programmers are accessing the right dictionaries for their UI internationalisation. Ooops.

* The trackpad has two buttons or, if you're using the brand new black key Macbook Pro, lots, via gestures and so-on. The second button is accessed by tapping with two fingers rather than one and acts very like middle-click on RISC OS. I couldn't live without it. To avoid confusing people, Apple leave all multi-tap and multi-touch gestures turned *off* by default on any fresh operating system installation. Go to System Preferences, Keyboard & Mouse, Trackpad tab. I generally leave the single-tap button stuff off and use the 'real' hardware button else I find I end up accidentally "clicking" when I don't mean to; but the two-finger right-click style tap is almost impossible to do by accident. Tick "Tap trackpad using two fingers for secondary click" if using a previous generation laptop, else follow the various hints, animations, guides and videos embedded in the whizzy new trackpad configuration tab for full gestural multi-touch goodness.

* Copy and paste: The non-persistent selection model of Mac OS is hardly unique; indeed RISC OS is one of the very few operating systems that does it that way, with newer versions adding in transient selection clipboard based schemes too. Now that you know you have a right-button in the trackpad (the two-finger click) you can get a menu up to do copy and paste, but I'm not sure how that's better than using the keyboard shortcuts. The built-in clipboard does not expose a history; that is, it only "remembers" the most recent thing you copied or cut to it. Have a look at "[link]" for a free way to get at a clipboard history, if you find that kind of thing useful.

* Drag and drop: I just loaded Keynote. I dragged the JumpCut icon from that page mentioned above in Safari to a blank bit of the Keynote presentation. It got added to the presentation. I'm not sure why you had trouble here; perhaps you were accidentally selecting text or something first, or perhaps you dragged the picture into one of the text frames (in which case, the associated alternative text that goes with the picture is inserted into the text). So don't try and over-complicate it with selections or copying or pasting or whatever - just drag the picture from Safari to Keynote and It Just Works. Ahem ;-)

* Note that you can drag pictures from Safari to Finder windows or the Desktop to save them. Like most such filename-less operations, the filename will be automatically chosen to avoid overwriting anything that's already there.

I had similar feelings about RISC OS after using and getting to properly know Mac OS 10.4, in terms of it being simultaneously enlightening and depressing. When using Windows, it's just a mess in every respect. Linux doesn't do a fair few things the way I'd have done them, probably because its open nature means there are loads of competing frameworks and libraries to do things. The choice is great, but applications lack integration as a result; just look at KDE vs Gnome, the lack of system-wide spell checkers for all applications or the number of different sound systems that are available. OS X's frameworks, on the other hand, coupled with the way the OS has evolved over its various versions (if you want to learn about the guts: Singh's "Mac OS X Internals" is huge, but excellent) are very logically structured and generally well put together, if far from perfect. At a macroscopic scale, the software's clean architectural vision is very evident, whatever you might think about smaller scale issues such as the layers of legacy APIs in the Mach kernel. Had the time, money and manpower been available, I suspect RISC OS would have eventually done many things in the same way.

 is a RISC OS Useradh1003 on 26/11/08 8:33PM
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To help out Martin and anyone else reading this thread because they're curious about Apple kit, here are a few really useful applications which can make life easier. Everyone has their favourites list - alternative packages are of course available - this is my preferred list. Everything is free (and usually open source) unless stated.

* Burning data CDs and DVDs: While iDVD makes really nice DVDs and while the Finder does let you burn data discs with a simple Finder-based interface (very like Windows XP or later do), frankly it's not very good and Apple should ship better. For a nice little simple thing comparable in many ways to RISC OS' CDBurn family, see Burn: [link]

* For a really nice FTPc-like FTP program including various secure connection options, I really like CyberDuck: [link]

* To read all those video formats which PC users like but QuickTime doesn't, install Perian - a collection of CODECs that integrate into the QuickTime subsystem: [link]

* For workable, if at times slightly shaky Windows Media support within QuickTime, see Flip4Mac (you have to tip-toe through this site to avoid accidentally buying something, but the basic decoder really is free): [link]

* A nice alternative to QuickTime player and something which can play a huge range of formats is VLC. Its user interface on Mac OS is much better than the mess on Windows IMHO: [link]

* For audio editing, Audacity has a native Mac port which works very well: [link]

* For DVD rips or video encoding, see HandBrake: [link]

* For an alternative and entirely free take on Microsoft Office or iWorks, see OpenOffice 3, which now also has a native Mac port: [link]

* A good, free and very capable text editor is Smultron, though I personally much prefer the commercial TextMate (see commercial list below): [link]

* Martin mentioned internet blackboards/whiteboards; this collaborative text editor may be of interest: [link]

* A really neat little menubar-based task manager, which ties into iCal without needing to *launch* iCal, is Anxiety: [link]

* If you want to know your machine's vital statistics (CPU load, RAM use, disc and network bandwidth etc.) then the menubar-based or Dashboard-based iStat Menus is really very good and very, very configurable, all through System Preferences: [link]

* If intending to run Windows or Linux in a virtual machine, there are well-integrated commercial options (see list below). There is also the highly capable and often overlooked VirtualBox, which is completely free: [link]

* Adium is a good chat client, if you're into that kind of thing: [link]

* To open relatively unusual archive formats, see The Unarchiver, UnRarX or 7zX: [link] [link] [link]

Commercial stuff:

* For virtualisation, Parallels vs VMWare Fusion is an ongoing debate. I like some features in Parallels 4 but I hate the company's charging strategy and they do seem to lack some quality control in their releases. I bought Parallels before VMWare came out with Fusion; if I were to make the choice today, I'd probably just buy VMWare Fusion instead. Google has links.

* For audio, I've used Cubase for many years but switched to Logic Studio 8 when I got the Mac Pro. I've never looked back. It's the single most capable and extensive piece of software I've ever bought; the range of genuinely useful and stable software you get for the price is astonishing. See the Apple store for details. Sorry for the advert ;)

* For text editing, for me, there's no contest: TextMate. It's everything StrongED is, plus a lot more, plus a big dollop of aesthetically pleasing implementation - I actually find it helps my coding style if my editor and its text displays look good, because my code wants to look good too :) The key to it is the bundles system, which is complicated, but deep and extensive. See: [link]

Oops. That ended up longer than I expected...

 is a RISC OS Useradh1003 on 26/11/08 9:14PM
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Follow-up - Fusion ended up being sold in a 50% discount offer so I got a copy. I still use Parallels in preference. While Fusion has some nice features, it didn't work with two displays properly and had a few other glitches that left me less than confident in it overall.

The money grabbing tactics of Parallels are still a concern so if the free VirtualBox doesn't do what you need then Fusion is still worth a look, unless Parallels' commercial attitude improves.

 is a RISC OS Useradh1003 on 6/1/09 1:06PM
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Very interested in the above article. As a busy consultant obstetrician & gynaecologist (almost all UK maternity casenotes owe something to the pioneering "Green Notes" design I created using my BBC micro + the most popular UK maternity system used my medical knowledge) I owe a massive amount to my BBCmicro->RiscPC->Iyonix->VirtualAcornonPC pathway and am now in process of the difficult move forward from the nightmares of MSWord etc to the new world of VirtualAcorn on a Mac to continue to create my massive website. Try googling "Perinatal Data" to see something if what I am trying to achieve.

But goodness me it has turned out to be a very difficult uphill road. So much to learn so fast. However, having now been using my Macbook Pro for about 6 weeks I have no doubt that this was the right move - Hopefully in time various aspects of the transition, especially to do with printing will become gradually easier.

Best wishes to any other amateur RISCOS fanatics who are trying to make the same difficult journey.

P.S. To my delight and surprise this is being typed into a window on my VA-Apple version but I have now forgotten how I ever got here!

 is a RISC OS Userrupertfawdry on 27/12/08 3:32PM
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This sounds interesting - drop me a line to news@drobe.co.uk if you want to take this further. Any interesting use of RISC OS is worth highlighting, as do your efforts to improve practices within the NHS.

 is a RISC OS Userdiomus on 28/12/08 8:04PM
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I now realise that somehow a Netsurf icon appeared next to my Impression Icon - but where is the program stored so I can get it running again next time I switch my Mac on?

 is a RISC OS Userrupertfawdry on 27/12/08 5:16PM
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You could search your hard disc within VA for NetSurf. In the hard disc root directory, highlight all the directories except !Boot (as it's unlikely to be in there), menu-click to open the Filer menu, navigate From Select -> Find -> type in 'netsurf' and hit enter.

 is a RISC OS Userdiomus on 28/12/08 8:09PM
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Or type

*Show NetSurf$Dir

in a task window (in case it has been seen already).

 is a RISC OS UserStoppers on 29/12/08 6:21PM
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