Snig
21/2/04 12:48PM |
"Chris Williams contributed source code to 4.39, however at no financial benefit"
How many other dedicated unpaid contributors to RISC OS are there? Welldone! |
diomus
21/2/04 12:51PM |
It's more of a declaration of interest. I contributed much, much less than the paid developers (it was something small), but I thought it'd be poor form not to point it out.
Chris. |
mrchocky
21/2/04 1:01PM |
In reply to Snig:
We always try to say when we're involved, even if it's only loosely. See my article on the Aleph1 Balloon Board, and other articles Chris has done mentioning news items from myself.
Historically, and apart news items about news outlets themselves, RISC OS news has not been generated by the same people who write about it. |
fylfot
21/2/04 1:33PM |
In Select 4.37 the start-up banner acknowledges Castle's ownership of RISC OS. It's interesting that the banner in 4.39 doesn't.
Of course, it's not been released yet and this will no doubt change. |
NoMercy (-1.0)
21/2/04 2:31PM |
*looks at the logo*, someone call vigay we got crop circles! |
AndrewDuffell
21/2/04 3:03PM |
Looks like there are going to be lots of RISC OS 4.02 ROMs around that are surplus to requirements. Seems like a good time to get them cheap off eBay soon...
I like the new banner  Green is much nicer than Blue, Pink, and Red have been. |
Revin Kevin
21/2/04 3:03PM |
Some one made an adding up mistake I think, as 256+256=512 not 510. In h
the bit about memory.
Or have I missed something? |
AndrewDuffell
21/2/04 3:04PM |
I thought the same... but won't the remaining 2MB of select tat doesn't fit in the ROM be softloaded to here, so that ay account for the 2MB missing.
It aint very clear though. |
imj
21/2/04 3:17PM |
In reply to Andrew:
"Select tat" ? How nice. It's true that a few things have been compressed (message, sprites) so that the 6MB softload image can fit in the 4MB ROM, so it does use some RAM space for that once running, but the ROM is still the ROM, stand alone, there's no need for any components to be loaded from disk. I suspect the 510 as quoted was a typo. |
AndrewDuffell (-1.5)
21/2/04 3:23PM |
"Select tat" was meant to say "Select that"
I was just typing too fast. |
mrchocky
21/2/04 3:26PM |
The exact amount of memory you get can depend on various software and hardware reasons. The additonal 128MB may impinge on a crucial physical address, so some of it is not visible.
Something similar happens in the Iyonix if you install 1GB memory, since the last part would overlap processor registers, you don't get exactly 1GB of memory.
On other hand, it's only a small amount if it's not a mistake, and 256MB SODIMMs are dead cheap these days. |
imj
21/2/04 3:53PM |
FWIW, on this standard SA RiscPC, with 128+128+2MB RAM, a betatest 4.3x RISC OS in ROM, I can power up, skip !Boot, and TaskManager shows 259036K free (and 788K used by the ADFS drive map, 80K fonts, 1484K Module area, 1024K screen) does that help?
I think that in reality it's prettymuch damned pointless having so much RAM in a RISC OS machine. Why anyone would care to put 512MB in a RiscPC, well, I can't fathom. Image manipulation is oft quoted as an excuse for lots of RAM, but once you start using that much of it at once for such a task, speed becomes more of an issue. |
wilf
21/2/04 4:40PM |
Actually, the Kinetic card will map the first 4MB on the cards memory as ROM space rather than executing RISC OS from the actual ROM. So 256+256 - 4 = 508, then add the 2MB VRAM and 510 is what you will see displayed at start up. |
martin (-1.5)
21/2/04 5:43PM |
In reply to imj
I managed to fill pretty much all of my 134MB with a two dimensional mathematical array as part of a research project. It was annoying to only have 128MB.
I need more, more, MORE....
(Hysterical laughter as the lights dim) |
Spriteman (-1.5)
21/2/04 7:28PM |
In reply to martin:
Buy a proper computer then :P
--
Spriteman |
simo
21/2/04 8:04PM |
So what's new about this 510Mb then - is it the first time RISC OS supported this much, or is it something new with the Kinetic (like the ROM slot being freed up now Select is in ROM?)
I always assumed you could put 2x128Mb on the mobo, plus 2Mb VRAM, plus 256Mb on the Kinetic?
I think if you need that much RAM, I think you need an Iyonix (or PC). |
diomus
21/2/04 9:37PM |
Oh yes, an important point I missed out of the article but it's been mentioned before: ROL are expecting to produce a run of 150 4.39 ROMs initially but if there's enough demand, they'll consider doing more.
Chris. |
AndrewDuffell (+0.1)
22/2/04 5:32PM |
Is 4.39 ROMs the same as a softloadable equiv? Or is 4.39 only avialable as ROMs |
sa110
22/2/04 7:43PM |
I imagine 4.39 in ROM will be the same as the softloadable one. Personally as I will be continuing my Select(Adjust) subscription I don't see the point of purchasing 4.39 in ROM.
Curious as to no mention of CTL on the banner.
Paul says in his update "RISC OS 4.39 has been developed to be capable of building 32bit compatible versions" - does this mean 4.39 could run on a 32bit processor or just the new features added to RISC OS as part of the select scheme? |
fylfot (+1.5)
22/2/04 8:04PM |
I wonder if there is an extra discount for Foundation members, or am I asking too much? |
imj (+1.5)
22/2/04 10:43PM |
4.39 is only available in ROM, updated as appropriate since the release of Select 3i3 some months ago -- not "the same as the softloadable one" as sa110 suggests -- I don't expect ROL to be releasing it as a softload for Select subscribers, as there's no real point.
For most current Select subscribers, there's no great benefit of buying the ROMs, other than saving a little bootup time until Select 4 comes along, or unless you want to use the few features affecting booting (eg DHCP on a diskless system) -- that is the primary market for Adjust -- those who are currently stuck on RISC OS 4.0x due to being unable to use softload.
As for the 32bit thing -- I believe what this means is that if certain companies stopped billying aound with their own wee OS-updates (yes, you know I mean Castle) and customers wanted real ongoing OS development, that ROL are now demonstrably in a position to provide it. That's always been the intent. I think the trouble is that Castle would prefer to be the Mr Bigtrousers and own the OS themselves, though... clearly demonstrated by them buying RO from Pace and choosing to ignore ROL's OS offering. sigh I wonder how many more Iyonix would have been sold if this mess had been sorted out and we'd seen all the Select features rolled in to RO 5 ? I'm certain that this OS would be in a stronger position if that happened. IMO, my ideal would be to see CTL do what they clearly do very well -- good hardware -- and let RISCOS Ltd worry about the OS. Won't happen, tho.  |
dgs
22/2/04 11:03PM |
In reply to imj:
How long did Castle wait, before giving up on the hope of someone else putting the effort into developing a 32-bit RISC OS ?
dgs |
imj
22/2/04 11:14PM |
Roumor has it that ROL were never asked. Dunno. Try asking Castle for a straight answer on that and see how far you get.  I'm also led to believe that the vast majority of the "Castle" 32bitting was actually done by Pace, for their STBs anyway. |
fylfot
22/2/04 11:28PM |
Whether Castle or ROL are to the blame for the apparent lack of co-operation doesn't really matter to your average RISC OS user. We are we are whatever has happened behind closed doors. ROL are at least now making it obvious (publically) that they are trying their best to get Select features on RISC OS 5. It will be interesting to see how Castle will respond. And by respond I mean, what they say publically as well as what they do in private.
The reason I emphasise making things public is that, as I have said elsewhere, I believe RISC OS lacks direction. Castle and ROL are clearly good-willed, but while the lack of co-operation continues we lose a single voice letting 'average users' an insight in to RISC OS' future - nothing to excite us.
hmm, am I making sense or is posting to Drobe while consuming large quantities of a rusty brown liquid a bad idea? |
john
22/2/04 11:45PM |
Sounds good, 87ukp isn't bad considering the cost of the ROMs (tens of pounds last time the topic came up) I just hope they've fixed up cut and paste in writeable icons to be like other programs (excluding text editors). I've reported it a few times but I've not heard any mention of it being fixed.
One other thing, I thought select was finishing one the roms were released, the roms would be the final version. Otherwise all that money seems a lot when softloading will be needed to keep up with select later. We need flash roms (joking) |
dgs
22/2/04 11:55PM |
In reply to imj:
Never asked for what ?
RISCOS Ltd had a set of published objectives. Why would anyone need to "ask" them to carry them out?
dgs |
imj
23/2/04 12:02AM |
In reply to dgs:
explain to me why ROL would release a 32bit OS with nothing to run it on? The objective was there if there had been a reason to carry it out. If CTL had gone to ROL and asked for a 32bit version, one assumes it would have arrived. From what I hear, they didn't. You and others appear to be implying that CTL wanted an OS and ROL said no -- where's your facts?
In reply to john:
Select is most certainly not finishing. Nobody ever said ROMs would be a "final" version. Wherever you heard that, is simply wrong. You are quite correct that "all that money seems a lot when softloading" -- indeed it does, which is why, if you are an up to date Select subscriber, there's little real point in buying the ROMs, as I said earlier. |
dgs
23/2/04 12:05AM |
In reply to imj:
One presumes that RiscStation didn't ask either, then?
How odd.
Where's your facts?
dgs |
diomus
23/2/04 1:48AM |
In reply to dgs:
I think the key point Ian's trying to make is that, perhaps, no one (specifically, no hardware manufacturer) asked and/or was willing to pay for a 32bit OS4. The quote, "RISCOS Ltd is committed to making the new features of Select available to all RISC OS users but it also requires the co-operation and support of the hardware manufacturers", would back this up.
Chris. Just me. |
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