RISC OS vs. AmigaOS | Drobe.co.uk archives

RISC OS vs. AmigaOS

By Chris Williams. Published: 30th Apr 2004, 22:16:48 | Permalink | Printable

Are we so dissimilar?

If you asked us to list the troubling issues facing the RISC OS platform right now, the lack of more modern hardware support and the OS development split between Castle and RISCOS Ltd. would probably be there, right at the top, beating other problems like the USB split between Castle and Simtec and the gradual slowdown in software development.

The RISC OS 5 vs. 4 and native vs. emulation debates have waged for so long now, almost rivalling the epically proportioned Zap vs. StrongEd battle of olden times - all of which have resulted in a divided userbase and leading companies pressing ahead with conflicting visions for RISC OS. The situation can be painted quite negatively, so is this ship sinking fast, without a trace? Certainly not, as RISC OS still has a lot going for it, and it appears our platform isn't alone.

For instance, there's another platform out there that's had its share of owners, OS development splits, various hardware solutions offered and highs and lows: AmigaOS, the other platform that famously won't die and was best known for its games in the 1980s and early 1990s.

Much like RISC OS was kicked between Acorn, e-14 and Pace before settling down finally with Castle, AmigaOS eventually settled with KMOS, with Hyperion Entertainment doing the AmigaOS 4 development and Eyetech producing the hardware - an arrangement not so dissimilar from the Pace, RISCOS Ltd., MicroDigital Omega circle from earlier this decade.

The aforementioned hardware is the AmigaOne, an 800MHz G4 processor powered motherboard with an 'off the shelf' graphics card, USB and so on, that will eventually run AmigaOS 4. The G3, G4 and G5 PPC family of processors are also, incidentally, employed by Apple in their fancy range of computers. Before the Iyonix arrived, it was the case that RISC OS 4 was available but the MicroDigital Omega was not. The Amiga platform is the converse of this, as the AmigaOne hardware is available (with a Linux port) while users await the release of the much anticipated AmigaOS 4.

Before the AmigaOne, there had not been a new Amiga computer designed since 1994, which was also the year of the RiscPC's launch. So in the meantime, prior to the AmigaOne launch, Amiga users had instead upgraded their machines to 50MHz 68060 processors and a PPC second processors, much in the same way RISC OS users could bolt faster StrongARM cards (like the Kinetic), better graphics support (Viewfinder), USB and fast Ethernet support into their aging RiscPCs. In the same way that the Iyonix heralded a leap forward in terms of speed, the AmigaOne ought to run circles around previous Amiga hardware.

The AmigaOne's PPC processor also forces a shift in processor platform for the Amiga consumer market, reminding us of RISC OS's brave jump from 26bit ARM to 32bit ARM with the Iyonix's XScale. While RISC OS 5 users need Aemulor to provide 26bit emulation, AmigaOS 4 will include built-in 68K emulation.

The RISC OS development split and competition from emulators is not so different from the emerging AmigaOS clones: Pegasos is another motherboard powered by a PPC processor that runs MorphOS, an AmigaOS clone with 68K emulation support. There's also the popular UAE, an Amiga emulator for PCs, and AROS, an open source clone of AmigaOS.

"AmigaOS 4 is the official new version of AmigaOS for PowerPC, it runs on AmigaOne PowerPC motherboards. OS 4 is currently in development and is being tested by a large team of developers and dedicated users but is not yet available to the general public (although they can buy an AmigaOne and run Linux until OS4 is ready). Like MorphOS, OS 4 can run existing applications under 68K emulation," explained Robert Williams (no relation, but just another coincidence), editor of Total Amiga magazine, to drobe.co.uk.

Despite no longer being a mainstream platform, a fall from grace that must leave some Amiga users feeling as bitter as those RISC OS users who felt let down by the dramatic Acorn break up, and waiting some 30 months for AmigaOS 4 to be released, Amiga users are surprisingly upbeat. And who wouldn't with an 800MHz G4 processor waiting for you, after so many years stuck on a 50MHz platform. Nethertheless, we asked Robert why Amiga users online hold such a positive outlook.

"Amiga users are a pretty mixed bunch, I think if you follow the conversations on various web forums you'll find there is a fair bit of angst," observed Robert. "In particular there has been quite a spat between supporters of MorphOS and AmigaOS 4 as the 'successor' to the 'classic' Amiga. That said I think most of the users left are pretty dedicated and have decided they like the Amiga despite the fact that PCs are cheaper and have a much wider range of software available."

Conclusion
While we mutter and complain about the troubles that colour the RISC OS platform, it's clear that the issues we face and the breakthrough successes that surprise us, are not so unique to our platform. Although it's clearly easy to write negatively about RISC OS, the success of other minority platforms should be an encouragement to us all.

Links

AmigaOS 4 and Eyetech
Total Amiga magazine

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Discussion

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Interesting article, I think the key difference between the Amiga/Pegasos situation and the RISCOS situation is that the Amiga OS/MorphOS has not aged well like RISC OS has (I say that as a Pegasos and Iyonix owner). RISC OS despite it's flaws is still a very usuable system, and has some really decent software.

CPU speed is not the issue with the Amiga or RISC OS, faster CPUs won't make the OS better or the software more powerful. Both the Amiga and RISC OS need work on the OS, the hardware is secondary.

mugent on 2/5/04 12:02AM
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I like the upbeat and mature tone of this piece. As a follow-up, it'd be interesting to know the state-of play on the Amiga of things like Real Audio, QuickTime, web browsers, etc. Have they found a solution to the compatibility issues?

That whole 'Robert Williams' and 'Chris Williams' coincidence is spooky. I mean, Williams is such an unusual name! Other coincidences abound. For instance, the Amiga has a word processor called Easywriter (no relation to EasiWriter!). There was that Amiga-style 'bouncing ball' demo. for the BBC B (with musical accompaniment from the Eurythmics' "Sweet Dreams"). And, of course, spookiest of all is that RISC OS has the soundalike Omeega ;-)

Stewy on 2/5/04 12:15AM
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It's always nice tosee (so called) minority platforms still have a valid user base - at this point it's even nice to see once competitors still going! And as someone who always enjoys an unexpected comeback I dearly like to see any 'old' (sic) platform stage something of revival :-)

I've noticed recently (OK a quick check after reading this article) that Convergence.org seems to have lost all Acorn influence (pending new content) - perhaps a new site/organisation of minority platforms needs to (ahem) Converge.

One thing that always made me wonder - why did Amiga Magazine live on soooo much longer than Acorn/RISC OS magazines?

Cheers, Ryan

drjones69 on 2/5/04 1:38AM
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What do you mean? AcornUser/AcornPublisher/Qercus is still going, as are many other RISC OS publications.

JGZimmerle on 2/5/04 7:50AM
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Archimedes World isn't. I always thought that was the superior magazine.

arenaman on 2/5/04 9:19AM
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and Acorn User pretty much collapsed until it merged with Acorn Publisher....

Dazzy on 2/5/04 10:39AM
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A very interesting and informative article: Thanks Chris.

One of the very first personal computers that I wrote a program on was a Commodore 'Pet' - It was Commodore who later produced the Amiga, wasn't it ? The Pet was a tidy machine, in it's time.

My only knowledge about the Amiga is that Musicians seem to really like it - Doesn't Fat Boy Slim use one a lot on his recordings ?

Anyway... I'm rambling..... But it is Sunday .....

martin on 2/5/04 11:01AM
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Bur Archive is still a good read. Having seen the 'transformation' of Acorn Publisher, I truly dread to see Qercus...

arenaman on 2/5/04 11:18AM
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As a musician, I prefer a PC running Adobe Audition and Sibelius!! I used to use Sibelius on the Acorn, though. I once tried to use an Atari but hated it. Never tried an Amiga but I doubt it can match Sibelius or Adobe.

arenaman on 2/5/04 11:21AM
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I think Arenaman would be very pleasantly surprised with Quercus, then...

markee174 on 2/5/04 5:07PM
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Really? Because Acorn Publisher went from being a fine example of design to a pretty amateur affair...

arenaman on 2/5/04 7:11PM
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arenaman: Mike Williams was a pretty hard act to follow, though, particularly for someone taking it over as their first real printed publication. I liked the second issue of Qercus more than the first (in terms of balance as well as of design).

One person the other week suggested to me that you couldn't tell Acorn User had changed editor in Qercus, because the level of typos and general standard of copy remained the same. Even if there are plenty of errors and half-finished sentences in the first two issues of Qercus, I'm not sure I can agree with the suggestion!

(I do sometimes think the "Electronic Quill" section has gone out without John really reading the text properly, but who knows).

Everyone takes time to get up to speed, and I imagine there have been some major changes between the first issue of Acorn Publisher in new hands, and the first issue of Qercus. Time for you to try out a sample copy rather than speculating, perhaps?

[link]

dgs

dgs on 2/5/04 8:24PM
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AP/Quercus has tried some new ideas - some have worked very well and others less so , but that's the risk you run trying things. However, it remains a high-quality publication and the John Cartmell can't be accused of not asking for input, ideas, suggestions, criticisms...

markee174 on 2/5/04 9:18PM
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Amiga used to have some of the best MOD tracking software, but Sibelius is much better than anything on Amiga. Amiga is very useful for video editing though, because it doesn't need a video capture card.

timephoenix on 2/5/04 11:18PM
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Nice article, but you seem to have misunderstood something fundamental.

> "Before the AmigaOne, there had not been a new Amiga computer designed since 1994 ..."

There is no and will not be any new Amiga computer. The plan for AmigaOS 4+ is to run on third party hardware, no-one will make special "Amiga hardware".

"AmigaOne" is a trademark exclusively licensed to Eyetech, and currently it's being used by them to sell $500(!) Teron PX motherboards as $800(!!) "AmigaOne XE" motherboards.

"All well and good", you say. "There's no more Amigas, so we'll buy our Terons elsewhere or wait until AmigaOS supports more hardware like Macs, Pegasoses or Iyonixes", you say. Tough luck. AmigaOS 4+ is being screwed. Former "hardware partner" Eyetech convinced Amiga, Inc (now KMOS, through what appears to be a rather dodgy shell game) to come up with a compulsory hardware licensing scheme, after Eyetech failed to actually make the new Amiga they once were commissioned to do when they were "hardware partners". So now AmigaOS will only ship bundled with hardware from dealers that have gotten themselves and their products a licence for this. AmigaOS will not be for sale in any other way (except if you have an old Amiga with a PPC accelerator card). There are no more Amigas, but we apparently should have to pretend that there are.

Number of licencees to date, after 3 years: 1 The licencee: Eyetech

More info (along with liberal amounts of soapboxing) here: [link] But a picture says more than an-arbitrarily-chosen-number of words: [link]

llloydfffawkes on 3/5/04 9:11AM
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IIRC the early episodes of Babylon 5 had their graphics done on an Amiga using a product called the Video Toaster (I recall this from readong a magazine interview from Wil Weaton - how sad am I?

).

I'd love to see a more hetrogenous computing environment. It would be great to see Amiga OS 4 have some success. I imagine there are a lot of nostalgic Amiga users out there, and most of them will have jobs so probably can splash out on one of the PPC boards.

It'll be interesting to see how it does. There are now quite a few alternative OS projects that are making progress, it's just that no one is gaining more mindshare. Certainly I doubt they'll be able to knock the computer==Windows out the mind of the general populous. Ah well. Best of luck to them, and here's to cheap PPC hardware, which might make PPC Linux a bit more popular too (I love ARM assembly, I love PPC assembly even more - ny architecture that has an instruction called eieio is fine in my mind

)

Dougal on 3/5/04 9:24AM
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"There is no and will not be any new Amiga computer". Fair enough, but what we've got here is a subtley of naming when we compare it to the RISC OS situation. There won't be any new Acorn computer either, but there _has_ been new hardware designed to run RISC OS.

I guess what you mean is that there won't be any hardware designed to run AmigaOS? (yes, I've read the soapbox rant). Or simply perhaps no new computer called an Amiga.

I think the point is that RISC OS users are slightly more concerned with the OS itself (view the popularity of VirtualRPC) and Amiga users slightly more with the hardware it runs on. Although of cousre there are plenty of counter examples, and it's dangerous to make these kinds of generalisations.

I'm also willing to speculate that AmigaOS is a bit more portable when it comes to new hardware than RISC OS, although that's perhaps an accident of history of 80s/90s hardware rather than anything planned.

mrchocky on 3/5/04 9:35AM
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@ALL

I just joined I can't stand some one whit dislike to AmigaOS, bash AmigaOS and say it will never come out and that there will never be new Amiga Computer, hey I have AmigaOne, and I use it to post this message, AmigaOS4.0 beta whit SDK is inn it final stages and is being duplicated, so developers can start using it, on there early birds (AmigaOnes)

there is bitter dispute between MorphOS and AmigaOS fans, you should be extremely sceptical of what you read on different web pages, out side the official pages, AmigaDE is one example of thins going wrong between Gensi and Amiga Inc, this the maybe the resone AmigaOS where sold to kmos, And I don't think AmigaInc or Kmos will ever sign contract whit gensi again, unless forced to.

[link]

On an more meaning full subject, like you to read AmigaOS4.0 feature list, an tell me what you think about it.

[link]

NutsAboutAmiga on 3/5/04 5:17PM
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Amiga: well at the start most games, accessed chipsets direct whit out drivers, then there some 3rd party gfx-cards and sound cards whit drivers, some time inn 1992, commandore when bankrupt inn 1994, and from then everying where dependent on 3rd party's to keep the community alive, Amiga changes lots of owners ESCOM, VISCORP, and so on, now AmigaInc owners the treadmark, kmos owns the OS, Hyperion is contracted to make the OS, previously H&P where contracted to make AmigaOS3.5/3.9 (some time inn 1998/99 i think)

AmigaOS4.0 will allow software for PPC/68k system friendly to run, however it will not allow old AmigaOS games that access chips directly to run,

here is some information on the emulator used. [link]

NutsAboutAmiga on 3/5/04 6:02PM
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Hi All Personally I have never heard of RISCOS but please do not get upset about that, I am an IT midget. What I do like and what I do affiliate with is the content of this article. I am very impressed with your community if this site is a fair represenative (of which I am quite sure). I have invested in a new Amiga One XE (950mghz) and the hardware is nice, the reason we are using Linux at the moment is that Hyperion and others are working very hard on transferring the OS to PPC, sure we will never have the "old Amiga" but I already have that, what we are aimimg for as I bet all of you folk are is a new, usable, fun and professional system without the overheads of a "Mega Corporation".

What from here, well I have just registered at your site and I will explore more about your OS and HW, will I change from Amiga OS definately not but is there any benefit of me knowing about your community, yes. If all of the smaller communities aim and keep on track for interconnectivity through some simple standards, well they can only prosper.

I encourage all your members to visit Amiga sites, Amigaworld is my choice but I also like Amiga Org, there are many others such as Amiga-News and Amigart. Please visit, comment and participate, I will encourage Amiga users to reciprocate.

Thanks you for your time.

AC

AC on 4/5/04 11:07AM
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I've come here following a link from amigaworl.net

[link]

I would like to second what AC said. We often loose track with our own infighting. Years ago I had a look at RiscOS - I was very impressed by it. It felt very responsive indeed.

With regards to the AmigaOne being an expensive Teron board - its not a lot more expensive than the Teron (price difference being around £50 - £100) but includes the hardware dongle so that OS4 will work, as well as AmigaOS 4 itself - this is to make it harder for AmigaOS 4 to be pirated. In a market as small as ours piracy would kill it over night.. The uA1 is scheduled for the end of this year - and should be much much much cheaper. The idea is that by useing a relativly standard board we can tap into the higher production runs - and thus Lower production costs, which can then be passed onto us. AmigaOS 4 itself has been written in such away so as to make it very easy to port to other hardware - there are some very nice boards out there, some nice PDA's which in theory could handle it. But it is only right that KMOS and Hyperion can protect their investment.

Anyway - thankyou for giving me a reason to come here, and thus find out more about RiscOS

Bobson

Bobsonsirjonny on 4/5/04 1:24PM
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So many typo's and bad grammer... sorry.

Bobsonsirjonny on 4/5/04 1:25PM
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Hi! Like some others, I've come for a friendly visit (aforesaid LINK) and, having heard of RISC OS before, have arrived with some curiosity. In truth, there seem to be some parallels between our two OSs.

Many of us A1 hardware owners have very itchy mouse-fingers as we await (sometimes impatiently) our long overdue OS, and just 'put-up' with Debian-GNU/Linux in the meantime.

arenaman said- As a musician, I prefer a PC running Adobe Audition and Sibelius!! Never tried an Amiga but I doubt it can match Sibelius or Adobe.

But, visit: [link] for an interview with a Japanese Musician who uses Amigas for his "Interactive Live Shows": [link] - a form of intertainment that is quite unique. Because of the age of the 68K Amiga h/ware, he can have difficulties after transporting the h/ware . . . he said: "I tried to change to PC many times but eventually I reach a conclusion that Amiga works faster than PC even if there is time of loss for the troubleshooting. SCALA accomplishes the key role in the Interactive Live Show though, I have an experience of interrupting the show for the machine trouble. I tried SCALA of the PC version on the show in 2003, but finallyI realised many things still could be done by only Amiga."

Regards - vortexau

vortexau on 4/5/04 2:15PM
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It's nice to see some crossover between the platforms

But just so you know it's not all one way, as a RISC OS user I've been following the Amiga links with interest. The AmigaOS4.0 feature list certainly looks impressive, but then so is the Windows XP feature list, and I don't particularly enjoy using XP. I don't mean to suggest that AmigaOS4.0 will be bad, just that to really know how good something is you have to try it out for real. I certainly hope that it lives up to its specs on paper.

Out of interest then, apart from community and nostalgia, what is it that keeps people with the Amiga? In my opinion, with RISC OS it's the GUI from the user's point of view. From the programmer's point of view it's the ease with which you can get at the underlying operating system without a squillion layers of abstraction (just my opinion, of course!).

At school it was always Atari vs. Amiga vs. Archimedes (RISC OS). They were all great machines in their own ways, even if I wouldn't admit it at the time

flypig on 4/5/04 3:21PM
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@ flypig

What keeps us with it?

Sheer bloody mindedness basically..

a rabid desire to get the OS back for the future.

AmigaOS like RiscOS has its own way of doing things - thats why we stick around. Sure in time other machines have caught up, and overtaken in some areas - but Amiga is our platform of choice. We've invested so much time in waiting, and in drinking, and in our machines that it would be insane after 10 years to give up now. So yes, ultimatly it is now more about sheer bloody mindedness than anything else. So in that respect is more than being about the Amiga as a box - as a computer. Ive met some great friends and many aquaintances through the machine.

Bobsonsirjonny on 4/5/04 3:46PM
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An other similarity: both are made instead of a great, technical superior, never completed OS in the Past. ARX, Riscos vs. CAOS, AmigaOS

Things missing with Riscos vs. Amiga, are an almost complete list of expansions like [link] and a common place for software like [link] There lots of Riscos software collections but none has almost al free- and shareware and most are dead.

egel on 4/5/04 4:12PM
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@flypig, To answer your question briefly- With the classic h/ware & OS, there is little latency. On my own A2000 with 50MHz 68060, the speed of system responce is unmatched by common Wintel systems until you get very clean post P-II setups. The Amiga was always targetted at the home-user; while Wintel went for industry.

I share your RISC OS view where the GUI is seen as friendly to the user, and its easy to delve into the innermost workings of the OS itself.

Compared to Windows XP (or, any Win from 95 onwards) AOS is lean! Version 3.1 (1995) was supplied on SIX 880K floppies. Of course, version 4.0 is certain to be some bit larger as its written for PPC, but the Beta-developer CD-ROM, which we await, is to contain plenty of developer tools and is unlikely to be anywhere close to capacity. I have a spare 4.3GB IDE drive on which to run this beta, while retaining Debian on the existing 40GB drive.

Some aspects of the 3.5 (1998) version are highlighted on my page: [link] in the lower two-thirds of the page. This h/ware was a 1989 model bought in 1991, and updated in the successive years. (THREE OS versions were released since the end of Commodore!) I look forward to a 16-Fold speed jump with the G4 PPC (7455), and even a bit faster when it is jumpered back to its 933MHz original specs.

vortexau on 4/5/04 4:18PM
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egel: There's a fairly comprehensive database of freeware/shareware for RISC OS at [link]

Steve

barti on 4/5/04 4:23PM
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Hello, I've come over from AmigaWorld too. There are definate similarities between the two systems.

I have very fond memories of using RiscOS on Acorns at school, my class first had an all-in-one system then we upgraded to a big box (A5000?) system with Hard-drive. It was RiscOS's GUI and all the cool programs like Notate, Pendown, and Artisan, that really got me hooked on creative computing.

I was really disappointed when I went to Senior School and had to leave the Archemedies behind for crappy 086 and 286 PCs running Windows 3.0. The tourture of turning on, waiting 5 mins for a boot-up, type your username + password, wait 10 mins for log-in. *sigh*

That was in 1993. I rediscovered the fun creative computing again in late 1997 when I started using a borrowed Amiga for my final GCSE IT project. It allowed me to create things again with the minimum of fuss, I was hooked and I bought my own the following summer.

My interest in Acorns and RiscOS was sparked again in 2001. I was doing wireless networking surveys for a number of schools in the southeast of England, and one school I went to had 100's of RiscPCs about, still being used (although I was told they were going to be replaced :-(

). From then on I've been keeping up with the goings on with RiscOS on the web, and occasionally chatting to those who use both Amigas and RiscOS.

Cheers,

Andy

Uncharted on 4/5/04 5:22PM
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Just saying Hi from another Amiga User. Its good to see non mainstream communities in existance.

It was a sad day at university when the Acorn's were replaced by PC's.

I too like some of the other are using the New A1 and I'm very proud to be a betatester of the new OS4 too.

JurassicC on 4/5/04 7:41PM
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Computing with RISC OS is fun and enjoyable. There's still reason to use it and it's still amazing how many problems are solved - decent printer driver, 32bit compatibility, etc. While any platform is fun and enjoyable to use it never dies, even if it lags in areas. Good luck Amiga.

JessFranco on 04/05/04 8:12PM
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Chris, thanks for an excellent article. It shows that RISC OS users aren't the only people facing the sorts of challenges a platform with a small user base has.

I'm sure there are things that both RISC OS and Amiga communities can learn from each other. Both have small but insanely loyal group of followers and a strong desire to keep their respective systems alive and kicking.

Just a thought, wouldn't it be nice to send out an invitation to Amiga users groups to attend upcoming RISC OS events like Wakefield. The members of there groups have similar interests and it would be a good opportunity to swap ideas and show off some of the great work being done in the RISC OS scene.

knutson on 04/05/04 10:49PM
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I can see it now: "no, no, this is the *Omega*"

monkeyson on 05/05/04 00:51AM
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Apologies for the late response but I've only just read this article/discussion thread.

In reply to arenaman:

What did you like about Archimedes World? Acorn Publisher still exists even if the name on the cover is Qercus and, as we own Archimedes World, there is no reason why that shouldn't return under the Qercus umbrella... BTW -as a musicial person perhaps you'd like to produce some ideas for our music/sound articles?

In reply to dgs:

Just to note that the Electronic Quill _is_ a letters/discussion column! We don't change the grammar much (if at all) in direct quotes or resumes. You may also note that some articles from contributors whose first language isn't English retain their odd idioms even if we've had to substantially edit the article. We assume that it gives a welcome flavour of the individual.

Of course *all* errors are ultimately at the editor's door! ;-)

In reply to markee174:

Thanks! We'll keep trying - and your comment is an echo of John's 2nd editorial in issue 270. BTW that 2nd editorial spot was introduced so that it could be taken over by guest commentatotors ... .. arenaman? dgs? markee174? others?

anon/129.35.81.16 on 05/05/04 08:25AM
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Here's another Amigan from the AmigaWorld thread!

Acorns were pretty much all we had at school, apart from BBCs in the infants, untill they threw out over 100 Acorns at secondary school and got PCs. I still remember the platform fondly - it's always seemed very original, not following all the other OSes. The way of saving a file was particularly innovative (and to think of the fuss m$ made about drag-n-drop in win95...). Then there's the way that (I assume it still works this way) applications directories are hidden so you see it just as one program - who needs fancy program launchers if you can get the directory structure right first time (AmigaOS also has a fairly neat structure, unlike a certain other OS).

The fact that the OS is ROM-resident (like "Classic" AmigaOS) also seemed like a good idea, as did including BASIC (I never used it much, but I guess a lot of programmers started off with it, in a similar way to including it with the Spectrum).

Seems like there's a lot in common between the two systems - it'd be quite nice for "niche" OSes like ours to co-operate more. Nice site!

anon/192.168.0.1 via 80.193.108.5 on 05/05/04 6:46PM
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I am a long time Amiga user , but have converted to riscos. My main machine is now a kinetic 300 with select, but I am also proud to own a PEGASOS 2 with MorphOS.

micken on 18/08/04 8:41PM
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