Middleton: 'Select 32' due 2005 | Drobe.co.uk archives

Middleton: 'Select 32' due 2005

By Chris Williams. Published: 6th Oct 2004, 02:19:01 | Permalink | Printable

Cat's out of the bag now

RISCOS Ltd., the developer of desktop RISC OS, has informed Select subscribers that they will be producing a version of Select suitable for computers with 32bit processors.

"The RISC OS Development Team have not been idle for the past year and we will very shortly be announcing some 'very exciting' new developments to RISC OS 4," RISCOS Ltd. managing director Paul Middleton commented.

Paul added: "I also know that some of you will have heard rumours of 'Select 32' and I am sure it will not be too hard to guess that this will be a version of Select designed to provide the Select experience to users with 32 bit only computers."

Paul carefully avoids using the word 'Iyonix' in his email to Select users, although reiterated that "offering Select for all RISC OS desktop users was our goal". Select users had earlier this year raised concern over the lack of commitment from RISCOS Ltd. over the issue of a 32bit Select.

On the subject of timescales, Paul "confidently" intends for 'Select 32' to be ready by 2005. Earlier in August this year, he told drobe.co.uk that we should expect a "first release of Select for Iyonix in Q1 2005", although according to sources, we understand that Q2 or Q3 2005 would be a more realistic timescale.

RISCOS Ltd. added that "fuller details of everything that is currently under wraps will be announced as soon as is possible".

Links

RISCOS Ltd. website

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Discussion

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Will Select for 32 bit be what Castle launched as Merlin, i.e. a replacement for parts of RISC OS 5 and quite a few add-ons, or does ROL plan to replace to whole OS?

It is intersting that they informed Select subscribers and not all users via e.g. c.s.a.announce ... though they kind of did thanks to Drobe...

hzn on 6/10/04 5:29AM
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Jam yesterday jam tomorrow....at least there is some attempt to inform (potential) customers about the current state of play which is a step forwards.

When there is a bug fixed finished product available (in place of a work in progress) then I will consider it in terms of the advantages it presents over RO5 vs how much the 'new' OS would cost and costs of getting similar functionality from third party add ons.

My Iyonix has been rock solid for a long time now, and I am not interested in upgrades for the sake of upgrading. There have to be very obvious benefits to make me want to upgrade.

I will watch future developments with interest.

blahsnr on 6/10/04 7:47AM
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I'm still waiting for them to release an update to the last Select issue that will work on Kinetics, altough I was last told that they are "working on it". Sounds like a good future though.

AndrewDuffell on 6/10/04 10:49AM
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You mean Select 3i4? Works fine on my Kinetic. What is not working on yours, maybe I just missed something?

JGZimmerle on 6/10/04 11:04AM
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According to ROL it works fine on their Kinetics, but a number of users have found it not to work.

AndrewDuffell on 6/10/04 11:56AM
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I'm really pleased to hear this news :biggrin:. The Iyonix is great, but with Select on top it will make it even better. If it's stable, my money will be waiting.

If RISCOS Ltd can make the effort to add user interface improvements (and make some money out of it too), this should leave Castle and Tematic to tackle some of the more underlying improvements to the OS that Merlin threw up.

flypig on 6/10/04 12:06PM
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Well, if there was some halfway decent sound and video editing software (like updated versions of ProSound and CineWorks) available for it, I might be tempted.

JGZimmerle on 6/10/04 1:02PM
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I just hope Merlin *will* be Select for Iyonix. It's time for the OS developers to unite and share the fruits of a common, stronger base. I also hope Select/Merlin will be added to all newly sold Iyonix models as standard, which might persuade those still unsure of buying the Iyonix.

Anyway, it's comforting to see these developments coming along.

hEgelia on 6/10/04 1:09PM
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JGZimmerle:

I totally agree. The Iyonix is well suited for professional multi-track audio recording/editing and, although I'm not as knowledgable in this area, I'd think it could hold its own in video editing as well.

hEgelia on 6/10/04 1:13PM
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In reply to Andrew Duffle The Adjust ROMs work fine on my Kinetic. The Kinetic's 4.03 ROMs, work well in a SA233, with Select 3i3 on top. There is a big problem with Adjust if I try to use it with my 128MB ViewFinder card - Paint and Draw both go seriously wrong with Viewfinder failing to update windows and the icon bar, all of which end up blank. The updated and enhanced Paint and Draw are excellent, however and I hope they will be part of this "Select 32".

martin on 6/10/04 2:19PM
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Hmm... Perhaps I should have said, "there is a big problem with 128MB Viewfinder when using it with Adjust"....

martin on 6/10/04 2:21PM
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hEgelia: "The Iyonix is well suited for professional multi-track audio recording/editing" - is it? Is there a non-complete-dross sound card for it yet?

nunfetishist on 6/10/04 2:26PM
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Will Select for the Iyonix be the dreaded softload, slowing the boot of my Iyonix down to a crawl, or will it reflash the ROMs as with standard RO5 upgrades? I hope that it will take advantage of the changes in technology of the Iyonix.

JWCR on 6/10/04 2:36PM
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I understand that they are still pretty early in the development stage of the new 32bit version of Select, but it is something that ROL should think about now.

JWCR on 6/10/04 2:39PM
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nunfetishist:

I'm sorry that I wasn't clear in this respect. AFAIK you can already record in 16 bit and the Iyonix tech-specs are sufficient for multi-track editing. Indeed, no drivers have yet been written for one of the many decent cards available which would allow for digital recording in 24bit/192kHz and more than 2 channels.

Perhaps through the use of a USB soundrecorder, one could still record in aforementioned resolutions and send it to Iyonix using an already existant driver?

hEgelia on 6/10/04 3:14PM
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JWCR: How do you know that a softload ROM would slow the boot of the Iyonix to a crawl? I have no idea what ROL are up to but I would bet a lot of money that Select32 will not reflash the Iyonix ROMs, simply because I cannot image Select32 to be a ROM image. It is probably a collection of updated modules that you load as part of your boot sequence - I doubt it will be noticeable in terms of startup time.

wuerthne on 6/10/04 4:14PM
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Will it be for free on the Iyonix?

Jaco on 6/10/04 4:51PM
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In reply to wuerthne:

Hi, I *sincerely* hope that you are right, that is, that Select for the IYONIX pc will not come as a complete replacement OS but as a load of modues which add functionality and perhaps replace the odd module which is in ROM. In addition this is safer since in case some part doesn't run safely you can remove it but if it is flashed ...

In reply to Jaco:

As far as I remember Castle wants to furnish RISC OS enhancements via Merlin and some things shall be free, others chargeable upgrades. But I guess we'll have to wait and see.

hzn on 6/10/04 4:58PM
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wuerthne: That isn't necessarily true. The computer has to reboot once the softloading has been completed and start again from scratch, which itself, while not creating a great delay, is still a delay. You also have to consider you're loosing RAM in the process, and while the Iyonix has pleanty of RAM, some people are quite possesive of their free memory!

Conversly, assuming the Omega will ever materialise (in a 32-bit form) we should consider if Select 32 will be compatible with whatever MD do with the ROMs in the Omega. Does the Omega support Flash ROM updates? (I should hope so, but you never know!)

Personally, I think it should definately use flashing. That is how the Iynoix is upgraded - get with the times. One solution (which could make downloads smaller) is an installer program which combines the new downloaded modules with the current ROM to create a new ROM image. This can then be applied as though the image were a new version of the existing ROM.

Smiler on 6/10/04 5:01PM
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hEgelia: The number of bits is only one issue. The quality of the recording's still dross, and completely unsuitable for studio work until you get into the £150 region, and even then true professionals will spend as much as £500 for something like a LynxONE. I imagine Castle, like all motherboard produces, choose a 12p chip that does it, and in no way well, and is only suitable for making a noise when you've got new mail, or for playing Repton.

nunfetishist on 6/10/04 5:43PM
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Smiler: correct, what Martin's said isn't "neccessarily true", but it almost certainly is. There's no requirement at to reboot. That just happens to be the most appropriate and sensible approach given what Select currently provides on a RiscPC. I also certainly hope your computer doesn't have loose RAM.

As for losing RAM, the amount really isn't significant in a 128MB or 512MB Iyonix, so I'm not sure what you're on about - we're talking at most a couple of MB - far smaller than your RMA for instance.

Your presumptions about flashing are flawed - there's no requirement for ROL to supply an entire ROM image, and in practice, they probably can't, either for legal or practical reasons relating to drivers. The Omega is a different story.

It's also impractical, error prone, and pointless to dynamically rebuild ROM images.

mrchocky on 6/10/04 5:55PM
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where it says 32 bit only computers, it doesn't mention risc os. it would be nice if this meant that ro might be available on other arm systems, like an ipaq for example.

jess on 6/10/04 6:30PM
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What email from Paul Middleton about 32bit select?

I am a Select Subscriber, I was even persuaded to renew this year after Castle and ROL "settled their differences". I even mailed them asking about this before I renewed, but I haven't received anything about a 32bit Select. The last newsletter I received was no. 30 in April and I've just checked the RISCOS Ltd site and can see no updates even in the select private area. So what exactly did Paul's message say?

chriswhy on 6/10/04 6:32PM
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Chriswhy, it was posted on the Select Mailing List at Smartgroups.

sa110 on 6/10/04 6:45PM
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