bluenose (+2.7)
6/5/06 1:16PM |
Great News.
Well done to AD6, RISCOS Ltd, CJE and everyone associated with this project.
After some of the gloom of recent months it's good to see this moving forward.
Hopefully this signals the start of some more positives for the market and I'm looking forward to at last recieving Select4 and Select for Iyonix. |
not_ginger_matt (+2.0)
6/5/06 1:57PM |
Whilst I can appreciate it's probably £500 + VAT + delivery, wouldn't a price point of £599.99 all inclusive make it look a lot more attractive? |
AMS
6/5/06 2:17PM |
not_ginger_matt>The actual price 604GBP (which excludes an optical drive), means that you'd need to spend an extra 94GBP (a total of 698) - I mean you will want at some stage to load software from CD won't you that being the case (unless you have a network) you're going to have to view 698 as the price "entry point" for A9?
While I applaud Ad6 and CJE for managing to bring the A9 to market the asking price is less than 100 pounds off that of an entry level Iyonix which has twice the RAM, HDD capacity, has an inbuilt CD-RW that can burn stuff to disk (unlike the A9 which can't) and a networking capability x10 times faster. I suspect if A9 really wants to make a splash then the price is going to have to come down some - otherwise it simply won't make economic sense when compared to the Iyonix Aria Cube. |
SimonC (-1.0)
6/5/06 2:18PM |
not_ginger_matt: What, making it more expensive would make it look more attractive? I don't think so. Plus I find all that 99.99 business rather annoying - is anyone taken in by it? |
not_ginger_matt (+1.0)
6/5/06 2:35PM |
In reply to SimonC:
No, £599.99 /including VAT and delivery/ as opposed to £603.96. |
Walks (+1.0)
6/5/06 2:39PM |
No, he is saying making it £3.01 cheaper.
The reason why prices tend to have .99 in them, is just due to advertisers exploiting human psychology. We perceive there to be a noticeable difference between something being FIVE hundred and something, rather than SIX hundred and something. Even though it is only 1p less of becoming SIX hundred. Unfortunately, more often than it not, it works - which is why they keep doing it. |
not_ginger_matt
6/5/06 2:47PM |
In reply to Walks:
I seem to recall the origin of things ending in .99 was to force a till operator to actually ring the item through as everything would require them to give the customer change. This may however purely be folklore, and it's now certainly advertisers who benefit from the "For less than £1!" headlines they can write. |
fylfot (+3.7)
6/5/06 2:55PM |
In reply to AMS:
"it simply won't make economic sense when compared to the Iyonix Aria Cube."
That seems a strange conclusion. If I'm after a computer which is small & portable, runs RISC OS Select, and I don't need a CDRom, why would I buy a bulky Iyonix which is almost 200 UKP more expensive?
Both machines will suit different users. I don't see why everyone is automatically, and regardless of their needs, better off with an Iyonix. |
AMS (+2.0)
6/5/06 3:22PM |
In reply to fylfot:
Check your prices man.
The Iyonix Aria cube with twice the RAM, twice the harddisk, a built in CD-RW drive (yes it writes as well as reads unlike the A9's), has a faster processor and can be expanded unlike the A9 costs 799 (includes vat) as against the A9Home (with optical drive) that cost 698 - how is that a difference of 200 GBP????
Yes if you drop the optical drive from the A9 it is cheaper again - but how do you load software? (Are all software distributors going to put software on Pen Drives just to suit A9 users (and what of their price?)). Will you need to have a second machine to act as a network linked CD just for your A9?
Yes the argument on size is the clincher for A9, but PRICE Isn't - which was my key point which you effectively ignored. For a person wanting to use an A9 realistically as their sole machine they'll need an optical drive - then the A9 most certainly would NOT be as attractive an option as the Iyonix cube. |
md0u80c9 (+0.7)
6/5/06 3:25PM |
flyfot: Given that RISC OS CDs are usually PC-compatible and most RISC OS users own a PC, if you are only an occasional RISC OS CD user (eg for new software purchases), you can alternatively hook an A9 up to a network (or use a crossover cable to a PC,) and then share a PC's CD/DVD ROM drive. In fact, I did this when I purchased a copy of TechWriter. For regular users or those needing CDs whilst travelling (rather than USB keyrings), the combo drive option makes more sense. |
GML
6/5/06 3:37PM |
In reply to md0u80c9:
"most RISC OS users own a PC". Evidence? |
tweety (+1.1)
6/5/06 3:46PM |
But there again the A9 is new and the Iyonix is old with a processor which is soon to be out of production  |
Stoppers (+1.1)
6/5/06 4:12PM |
In reply to AMS:
Unless you can buy an Iyonix Aria cube without a CD-RW drive for less than the list price, the entry level price for the A9 home /is/ nearly two hundred pounds cheaper.
(I have a network, it has 1 DVD writer, 1 DVD reader, 2 CD-RW drives on it; why would I want another one?)
Has anyone actually used the Gigabit Ethernet on the Iyonix as such? I don't see it being particularly common in the PC world (not that I look much).
As for expansion, my RPC has gone from a two-slice to a one-slice over the years as I decided I wasn't actually going to buy any more expansion podules! |
AMS (+1.1)
6/5/06 4:33PM |
In reply to Stoppers:
I specified that a person using an A9Home as their sole machine didn't I. Such a person *would absolutely NEED* a CD-R or other optical drive. So in that instance the difference between the A9 and Iyonix Aria Cube is only around 100 GBP.
In reply to Stoppers:
"Has anyone actually used the Gigabit Ethernet on the Iyonix as such? I don't see it being particularly common in the PC world"
Yes the Iyonix has a better Interconnect than the A9Home and many PC's - but some PC's do now (and will in future have) Gigabit interconnection. Call it future proofing Iyonix has it A9 doesn't.
Each person has individual needs and that may mean in some circumstances the A9 may represent a better choice than the Iyonix - but in reality in most instances on the grounds of modernity, expansion capability and (yes) just being able to DO things the Iyonix is the better choice.
In reply to Tweety:
"But there again the A9 is new and the Iyonix is old with a processor which is soon to be out of production"
In the trade that's called FUD (Fear Uncertainty Doubt). Regularly on Drobe just before a show an article showing how (a). Someone thinks the Iyonix is crap (b). That Castle have moved (gasp they're on the virge of bankrupcy) or (c). The Iyonix's CPU has gone out of production. Still its in the realm of FUD.
Now Intel being Intel and their distribution channel will have years worth of IOP321's in stock (you can still get StrongARM's and they went out of production 2 years ago). That gives Castle plenty of time to introduce an newer Iyonix and (unfortunately for A9) a much faster one.
|
jc (+2.7)
6/5/06 5:50PM |
In reply to AMS:
Why argue?
We have a choice. We have a range of RISC OS machines and each person can make their choice. There is absolutely no reason for anyone to be negative about either of the choices.
Say "Great stuff!" ? |
not_ginger_matt (+0.1)
6/5/06 5:51PM |
In reply to AMS:
I personally don't see why an optical drive is so essential -- I can't remember ever using one on my SA RPC as everything I install is obtained via the internet.
Personally, if I wanted a desktop RISC OS solution it'd probably be a decent spec Dell PC running VirtualAcorn (far cheaper and faster than an Iyonix.) If I wanted a RISC OS solution with the form factor of an A9Home then I have no other options (a MacMini running Windows running VirtualAcorn isn't yet available other than via the Apple beta software.)
There's also the various issues of the A9Home's OS advantages which is increasingly making RISC OS 5 look like it's not had the attention of anyone other than CTL's lawyers.
Anyway, it's all totally academic -- the real choice people are going to make is for size of expandability. If you just look at the price of any RISC OS machine based on it's spec it's impossible to justify it against mainstream alternatives. |
not_ginger_matt
6/5/06 5:52PM |
That should read '...for size or expandability' and not '...for size of expandability'. |
AMS
6/5/06 6:01PM |
In reply to jc:
Agreed, choice is a good thing - and actually I do wish Ad6 and CJE well with this.
The only thing disturbing my calm interior is the tendancy for some to throw "brick bats" (as the guys across the pond would say...) at Iyonix. Both machines deserve support (but you'll sadly find a considerable amount of what could be validily described as FUD being spread about Iyonix at the moment), yet glaring deficiencies in the A9 are ignored.
not_ginger_matt>So not having a means of reading or writing data from/to optical disks is not a necessity for you. Grand - if that floats your boat save the 200 (or so) GBP and forgo it and opt for an A9.
The speed assertions regarding VA and a Dell laptop would require verification - for example doing what ? And if you went that route and proved that case then surely the A9 would be even slower still....
not_ginger_matt wrote>"making RISC OS 5 look like it's not had the attention of anyone other than CTL's lawyers"
Jc that's the sort of thing I am talking about and matt's not the first and won't be the last either. I'd argue that RO5 is quite a good OS and it does things that Select (or even the cut down version on the A9 doesn't or can't do).
not_ginger_matt wrote>"If you just look at the price of any RISC OS machine based on it's spec it's impossible to justify it against mainstream alternatives."
That's conveniently ignoring that software, support, AV and other issues COST a lot more on those alternatives. The cost of the computer *ISN'T* just the cost of the box.
|
delink (+1.6)
6/5/06 7:00PM |
Very off topic, but nevertheless:
Not only in the current discussion, but many times before I've read that a VirtualRPC, running on a up-to-date Pentium laptop, is much faster than an Iyonix.
Well, I happent to have all three of them - VRPC, fast laptop and an Iyonix - but the only thing that really goes faster on the VRPC is the boot process. All other things that I do on a VRPC (typically running Basic programs, as well as some games) run approximately two times SLOWER than the same programs on my Iyonix. So, I suppose it heavily depends on what specific software we're actually talking about.
Kind regards,
Paul Sprangers |
not_ginger_matt (+1.1)
6/5/06 7:19PM |
In reply to AMS:
You appear to be very confused -- so far no-one has argued against buying an Iyonix at all, everyone has merely pointed out that your original statement was bogus.
I personally simply think it's painful that Castle and RISCOS Ltd couldn't work together for the OS development (does A32 have unicode support?, does OS5 have alpha support?) |
not_ginger_matt
6/5/06 7:25PM |
In reply to delink:
I was thinking more about a desktop PC rather than a laptop, purely to keep the PC 'class' the same. I would guess that an equivalently priced PC (minus the copy of VA) compared to an Iyonix should have better performance -- anyone got any speed tests for various machines under Windows and emulated RISC OS? |
caveman
6/5/06 7:31PM |
In reply to AMS:
94GBP for a optical drive? where? i'm here in germany. 75 euros in an external usb case for a dvd rw. means around 50GBP I calculate right. inclusive Mwst (german VAT).
|
Revin Kevin (+1.0)
6/5/06 8:02PM |
The thing about the A9 home is that it could easily be turned into a laptop.
1. A rechargable battery pack
2. Small LCD screen
3. Briefcase
Attach the screen to the top inside cover of the briefcase
LCD attached to the back of the A9 home and into the battery pack
Cut a hole in the briefcase for the PSU, mini keyboard and mouse is added, inside a samll briefcase no problems. |
VLIW (+1.1)
6/5/06 9:18PM |
For me the A9 looks good and in my very own cases it would make sense to buy this one instead of an Iyonix - not that I would not love to get one.
a) I made the experiences that RISC OS 4.0x and Select 3i3 with more than 128MB of memory may cause a lot of trouble due to some well known issues with the DA and some (miss-)behaving applications with. And the fixes I knew were not so helpful. This may be solved with RISC OS 4.39 or 5.xx. But if no the more on RAM would not be such a great deal.
b) I run a RPC 700 here with no optical drive and the build in FDD was just used once for starting !HForm. And even the CD/RW drive in my RPC SA has not been used for a rather long time now.
c) IFAIK the 1000 MBit NIC in the Iyonix is far from this performence in real life. Depending on the sources I read that the perfomance is somewhere between 20 and 100 MBit. But I guess that the NIC in the A9 will be at least as "fast" as the old EtherH I have in my RPC 700.
The only niggle I can see now on the A9 is the external power supply so it does not have this computer-typical power cords (in german called "Kaltgerätestecker"). This means I can not connect the A9 with my APC power backup package.
Just my thoughts.
Sincerely Hauke |
sa110 (+1.1)
6/5/06 10:09PM |
In reply to VLIW;
The A9 uses an exteral AC adaptor. The connection from the adaptor to the power uses a standard (if forget the correct name - IC lead?) 3 pin moulded power adaptor i.e. 3 pin int the ac adatpor. If the old RPC power leaded fitted your APC, then the A9 should too. |
bobloblaw
7/5/06 7:56AM |
AMS wrote:
Jc that's the sort of thing I am talking about and matt's not the first and won't be the last either.
Then he wrote: (or even the cut down version on the A9 doesn't or can't do) |
Stoppers (+0.7)
7/5/06 10:07AM |
In reply to AMS:
"I specified that a person using an A9Home as their sole machine didn't I".
Yes, I see you did. Unfortunately, it was in the "small print" at the bottom!
I was answering the question "... how is that a difference of 200 GBP????" by saying, in effect, "it is, if you compare the cheapest options".
Nobody's arguing that if you need more RAM, USB 2, Gigabit Ethernet, an optical disc writer, podule bus, or any of the other features of the Iyonix that the a9home doesn't have that you shouldn't buy an Iyonix, just that the a9home is three-quarters the price of the cheapest Iyonix. |
jc (+1.2)
7/5/06 10:08AM |
In reply to bobloblaw:
AFAIK AMS doesn't have an A9 so his "what it can't do" has to be seen in that light. What I've found to be important about that machine is the new perspective that it gives to how you can use computers. It's a perspective that will add positive vibes to RISC OS as a whole and help everyone involved in promoting RISC OS products - which is why brickbats, even from AMS, are an irrelevancy within our community. |
hEgelia (+2.7)
7/5/06 11:48AM |
Except price, there are some substantial differences between the A9home and Iyonix. Some of which I think have still not been mentioned here.
I prefer the A9home by a long shot;
It's very small, tiny in fact. I have a hunch it's about as small as they could make it, it was a goal which suits my needs very well.
It's robust. Built to withstand the severe trauma of being on the road with me. It fits right in with some of my other gear, neat.
It's quiet. Quiet I say? Try silent. Fanless. Anyone know of any other (semi-)desktop computer which has no fans? Anyone know how much money and effort is invested in making a PC silent these days? Why, you ask? Well, for example to use it in a recording studio, without compromising recording clarity and listening (to verify) ability. This is a huge plus for me.
It doesn't have an optical drive onboard. I don't need it, for several reasons. I network it when I need data, files, etc. I can use a USB stick for back-up. Optical drives also tend to get rather noisy, IMO. I do not need to burn data or even audio with it.
It can run RO Select 4 out of the box.
In summary, I can understand very well that this lovely, unique machine can not live up to certain (average) needs of a home user. Iyonix can. |
SimonC (+1.1)
7/5/06 12:00PM |
Point taken about my earlier price cockup (although if it makes me think that it's approx. ~£100 more then it backs up my point about 99.99! I do wish things like that would just be put to £600 instead of £599.99).
heglia: The A9 isn't really all that suitable as a sole standalone machine, but would make a very nice second one. All its benefits seem to support the idea that that's what it's for. Its purpose seems to be exactly the type of thing you say appeals - small, unobtrusive, additional, and can connect to another machine if it needs to. |
JohnB (+2.1)
7/5/06 12:08PM |
It's certainly positive news that the final product will be in people's hands very soon.
As for what is the true cost of entry - that will vary from user to user. I don't especially need an optical drive but what is essential is wireless network capability - an option that should hopefully be provided by STD's Wireless USB adaptor. Which would give me an entry price of £603.96 + £79.95 = £683.91 for a tiny, modern RISC OS machine running Adjust and capable of running Select 4.
I am looking forward to hearing some feedback from users and hope that the A9 will be released prior to or at Wakefield ^_^ |
nijinsky (+1.1)
7/5/06 12:16PM |
Ahemmmm 
Can one perhaps plug an A9 into an external pocket DVD player or the removable screen you get on some cars. If so, you have a laptop.
Cheers
Bob |
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