hEgelia 
28/8/06 1:05PM |
Finally! Excellent news for which I've been waiting a long time. Now just a bit more for it to get refined and merged into the main RPCemu code, but I feel much more certain of this then VRPC ever appearing for the Mac. I kind-of understood why VirtualAcorn did not choose to release it for Linux, but surely that argument does not apply to Apple computers?
In my opinion, the Mac serves as a more logical substitute for RO users than Windows, so sometimes I find it a bit odd that the PC, or rather Windows, seems to be the obvious alternative for many RO users. Perhaps many RO users are using a Mac at the side, so I could very well be wrong here. Anyway, I'm very happy with this news! Thanks must go to Chris for managing to get it to work on his Mac! |
Spriteman
28/8/06 5:43PM |
So the SA RiscPC is about 30 mips. This is 5 on an iBook. I guess we can expect about 10ish on a MacBook. That's not bad as long as you aren't expecting StrongARM performance.
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Sprite |
Jwoody (+1.4)
28/8/06 7:35PM |
What happens with the mouse buttons? I thought mac just had one and RISC OS 3. Can you get a three button mouse for the mac? |
diomus (+0.1)
28/8/06 7:47PM |
Mac OS X supports two-button mice. You simulate the RISC OS middle mouse button using the alt-key. |
Jaffa (+0.1)
28/8/06 9:08PM |
To be pedantic, Mac OS X supports more than two-buttons - I've got 3 and I know of people with 5 or so, mapping some to Expose etc. |
freder
28/8/06 11:04PM |
I'm using an Apple Mighty Mouse (Ugh!) which has 4 buttons and scroll ball. |
TonyStill
29/8/06 12:04AM |
Well, this is tempting for someone who has just bought a MacBook - having finally given up waiting for a RISCStation Portable 
I do find all my doubts about emulation reawakened though: Presumably one has to buy a new RO licence to run on it (remembering all the discussions about how ROM sets are only licensed to run in their original hardware).
I also get a 'what's the point' feeling. I have been a RO fan for years and it has been my main OS in all that time. Using it as the actual operating OS on my Iyonix is one thing but is it worth hobbling the performance of my MacBook with an emulator? I find Windows dreary and poorly designed so running away from that makes sense but MacOS is much better. I suppose it gets familiar and pleasant RO applications onto a mobile platform.
I do agree with hEgelia about Macs being a better substitute for RO but that just makes these questions harder to answer. |
freder
29/8/06 1:20AM |
Messenger Pro alone is a reason for me to want emulation on my laptop, esp for dialup. then there's the usual suspects I wouldn't want to leave behind. |
jess
29/8/06 10:38AM |
How viable would a USB ROM carrier be?
If one were viable, that would (should?) solve all the problems of licensing. |
em2ac
29/8/06 11:10AM |
In reply to TonyStill:
you could always wait for the Mac version of Virtual RPC Adjust ;@) one price.
In reply to Jess:
Dongles are a clever method of copy protection, but more than likely can be undermined in the worlds of Mac and windows in a matter of seconds...
what I want to know, is when is USB support for this app / Virtual_RPC going to be availible :@D
Good work though! keep it up. |
jess
29/8/06 11:51AM |
In reply to em2ac:
Not the angle I was thinking of.
Someone makes an open source design for a ROM carrier. A common interface is written (to allow other designs) The emulators use this interface to get the ROMs.
This would give honest people a means to use the emulator.
If Castle\ROL so chose, they could license ROM images to work in a software only version. |
jess
29/8/06 12:34PM |
In reply to jwoody:
My Mac has a standard USB 3 button mouse that I used to use on my RPC with simtec USB card. Unfortunately the functions of the 2nd and 3rd buttons are approximately adjust and menu rather than the other way round. |
flibble (+0.1)
29/8/06 12:40PM |
In reply to Spriteman:
The SA RPC is about 200 mips, 5mips is just over the speed of an ARM 2.
In reply to em2ac:
Yes you could get Virtual RPC Adjust for Mac OS, just one problem, they don't sell it. It has been demostrated at various shows, but just like the Linux version that's also been shown, it's not for sale. |
cables
29/8/06 1:19PM |
This is marvellous news. I'll certainly be emailing for an experimental copy when I get home from work. I already have a two button + one scroll wheel mouse on my iMac (the Apple mouse was horrible) so I expect that to work.
Maybe this news will persuade Aaron to release the MAC version of VRPC (I hope). |
druck
29/8/06 1:20PM |
Well done to all involved - I was watching the development work as it happened via screen shots posted on IRC, as the graphics memory bit ordering was sorted out in each mode.
Aaron should rightly be kicking himself now for letting the opportunity to sell VRPC for Mac OS slip away by the second. But instead he seems quite happy playing silly bugger word games in the VRPC support forums, over why VRPC+Select users don't get the 8MB screen modes that VRPC+RO4 and VRPC+Adjust get. |
hEgelia
29/8/06 2:02PM |
Well, apparently there were a few (minor?) issues with the Mac version of VRPC which prevented it from being released. However, I believe that was at least a year ago and nothing seems to have been done to fix them.
VirtualAcorn should fix these and release a Universal Binary version of the software as soon as possible. Only having it for Windows sucks pretty bad. They should also redo their website, which looks cheesy and offputting especially the cheap RO3 intro bit. Also, I find the Win2000 desktop on the title page cleaner and more professional looking than the cluttered 1995 RO3 desktop... RISC OS can look so much better. |
Spriteman
29/8/06 3:00PM |
In reply to flibble:
Well spotted, that man. I must have been thinking RiscPC 600. So, kinda sucky then. =)
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Sprite |
gbarnes (+2.1)
29/8/06 3:52PM |
In reply to druck:
Aaron only has the opportunity to sell products that are available. As yet I haven't delivered a commercial grade product to him so he has nothing to sell for the Mac. If you want someone to blame, blame me as the developer.
In reply to hEgelia:
VirtualAcorn will try to release a version of the software for Mac as soon as possible, but due to other commitments this may not be as soon as you or I would like. |
jess
29/8/06 4:01PM |
Is there anyway a VA5000 could be released (either free or very cheap) as a stopgap and a demo?
(With Castle's comments about open source, maybe they would allow free distribution of 3.1 ROM images now) |
hEgelia
30/8/06 1:55PM |
In reply to jess:
I completely second that - in fact, I'd say it should be free and available for all common platforms, complete with a special distro of RO3.1 rigged for VA5000.
I can understand if Castle is hesitant to open source only 3.1 -- it already contains pretty much all the GUI 'niceties' which continue to make RO unique today. So, perhaps a deal can be struck between them and VirtualAcorn to have a special binary-only 'promotion' version of VA5000. It could really help the platform as a whole by making RO accessible and interest potential developers + act as a 'warming up' for a possible open sourcing of RO at a later time. |
jess
30/8/06 5:57PM |
In reply to HEgelia:
Hence why I said make available for free distribution.
I agree if there was a VA5000 type package free on all major platforms (with 16M RAM and network and host FS support) it would be of benefit. First It would attract retro gamers. Then some would find the range of good software that still runs on 3.11 and may attract some to modern RISC OS. It would also help those who use RISC OS at home and something else elsewhere, and could make the difference between jumping ship or not. It may even stimulate some software developement, a free fast emulator could easily quadruple or better the number of RISC OS users. |
bluenose
30/8/06 7:36PM |
In Reply to Jess and hEgelia
At a RISCOS Ltd AGM some years back I made a suggestion to include a time limited version of VA on a PC magazine cover as a way to gain some exposure for RISC OS. I still think that this or a "free" version would help our market. |
AMS
30/8/06 8:03PM |
In reply to Jess:
"Is there anyway a VA5000 could be released (either free or very cheap) as a stopgap and a demo?"
I refer you to Graham Barnes reply (above). It's not a matter of having "a version" of VA to run on the Mac but to have a "commercial grade" application available to run thereon. I am sure if Graham and Aaron had the situation where VA5000 could run acceptibly on the Mac then the VARPC variant would be just as easily (and probably more sensibly) deployed on the Mac.
In reply to bluenose:
I am not a big fan of emulation of RISC OS on other platforms (the image of nails and coffins keep popping into my head when I think about it....). But if you're going to allow it I am of two minds as to whether allowing something like "VA5000" (with presumably RO3.1) out there. I always thought the 77 objects per directory limit in that version of the OS was (at the very least) embarrassing - I would not want other platform users to think that RO was slow (emulators are) and surprising limited in the number of files they support per directory.
If the great and the good decided that RO could be "resurrected" by releasing RO on another platform (under emulation) - and the logic they used for doing this was convincing (I don't think it is though) - then I'd say release a good version of RO for demo not one from the time of Babbage and steam computers and 77 file limits etc., ..... |
MikeCarter
30/8/06 8:04PM |
In reply bluenose:
You would have to write a program to permently delete the Rom after the the trial period is up, that is if RO 4x was used. If 3.1 was used then that may not be such a problem. |
bluenose
30/8/06 9:25PM |
I'm not a fan of emulation either but my suggestion was more on how to get some one curious in RISC OS. PC magazines are purchased by lots of people and when they try out the copy it could load up a screen splash with details of how to get a real machine. Instead of evryone complaining about the state of the market lets have some thought on getting out to a wider audiance instead of lots of internal bickering about emulation, open source etc.
Yes 3.1 is limiting but you could add more info on the up to date features. Why, we could even use the Windross install system our advantage in that it could run a series of RISCOS bits just like Windross does when you install it. |
wuerthne
30/8/06 9:30PM |
In reply to AMS:
RISC OS 3.1 running on VirtualAcorn does not have the infamous 77 file limit. VirtualAcorn uses HostFS and thus supports long file names and unlimited files per directory.
That said, I fully agree that RISC OS 3.1 is not really an advertisment for our platform. It mainly has nostalgic value. |
AMS
30/8/06 11:00PM |
Wuerthner>Martin, yes indeed you're right, and I should have remembered that as many years ago I used to use VA5000.
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jess
30/8/06 11:41PM |
In reply to AMS:
VA5000 is not slow on a fast machine. |
timephoenix (+0.1)
31/8/06 1:28AM |
Although being able to distribute RO 3.1 freely would be a big step, IMO putting VA5k on the CD of PC World or whatever would be negative publicity if anything. It looks very dated next to the 3D Desktops of Mac OS X or Vista.
A time-limited version of VRPC-Adjust would be good, but you'd probably want to include demo versions of some software too (Netsurf/Oregano, Techwriter, Ovation Pro, Artworks?) since people aren't going to get too excited playing around in !Draw or !Maestro (even though they are OK apps). |
mripley
31/8/06 9:09AM |
Spot on Josh, the RiscOS look is very dated compared to all other OS's even XP (the next worst looking). You can't look at RiscOS with loving anti M$ eyes but with the eyes of the public. They will think it is some kind of retro OS.
RiscOS needs a facelift. |
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