delink (+1.0)
31/1/07 3:38PM |
Interesting news, again.
However, unlike FireFox, which does provide some features that are not yet implemented in existing RISC OS browsers, I'm afraid that I'm missing the point in this build. I use Thunderbird since quite a while now on my Windows machine, but I never discovered any functionality that wasn't covered at least as good as in Pluto, to call but one (and to say the least). And Pluto is free as well.
Of course, from a porting point of view, this is all very exciting, but personally, I would never ever leave my dear little planet, in favour of this red giant.
Kind regards,
Paul Sprangers |
fylfot
31/1/07 4:03PM |
In reply to delink:
"And Pluto is free as well."
No so. http://home.clara.net/jsd/order.html
This Thunderbird port is good news. Thanks Peter. |
adamr (+1.0)
31/1/07 4:05PM |
This strikes me as a slightly curious development since email clients is one of the (very) few areas where RISC OS is just about keeping up with the mainstream. It would be interesting to hear Peter's thoughts on the issue.
In reply to delink:
Pluto costs £30.
Adam |
philipnet
31/1/07 4:18PM |
In reply to delink:
"I use Thunderbird since quite a while now on my Windows machine, but I never discovered any functionality that wasn't covered at least as good as in Pluto"
So the IMAP and SSL functionality in Thunderbird is just as good as Pluto's? 
Oh, I forget, Pluto doesn't so IMAP and SSL where as Thunderbird does.
But so does MessengerPro. |
hubersn (+1.0)
31/1/07 4:32PM |
It is certainly a good thing that we finally have a free IMAP-capable solution available (I say that without actually checking if the current port really does IMAP...).
And I think that, for serious usage, the ChoX11 lib is still a long way off before being a real alternative for "native" RISC OS software - Thunderbird is a lot more "UI" reliant than Firefox, so its "non-nativeness" will always be more obvious to the average user.
Of course I don't know precisely what state ChoX11 is in, and I don't know how much "RISC OS nativeness" can be added at the layer it operates. |
JGZimmerle (+1.0)
31/1/07 4:36PM |
Thunderbird has better support for encryption, like S/MIME and X.509. |
dgs (+2.0)
31/1/07 4:45PM |
In reply to delink:
"And Pluto is free as well"
No. Pluto is not free, even if the demo is free.
dgs |
JohnB (+1.0)
31/1/07 5:37PM |
An unexpected development. It's nice to see further work from Peter although I'm rather more interested in Firefox (to which I contributed). Messenger Pro 4 is excellent and I've heard good things about Pluto so it doesn't appear to be an area where we're lacking.
I appreciate though there is a PR factor to being able to say 'we have Firefox and Thunderbird' ... |
Jwoody (+1.0)
31/1/07 8:34PM |
After Firefox I think Thunderbird is a logical choice for a next port. Sure it does not add a great deal of value as a RiscOS application which is new, but from a porting point of view it makes sense. As a port it would be close enough to Firefox so as not to be difficult and it may have thrown up errors in ChoX11 that would be good to fix. I guess the ultimate aim must be to be able to port things like OpenOffice but I suspect that is still a long way off. I guess he could have gone for GIMP,Inkscape or Scribus but the same cry's of we already have similar stuff under RiscOS would have gone up and they would not have be as similar as Thunderbird to Firefox |
JWCR (+0.9)
31/1/07 10:25PM |
I hope that this was a neccessary excercise that aids in the completion of Firefox for RISC OS. Otherwise this is a bit of a distraction. Firefox 2 for RISC OS is barely functional, vital things like the hotlist and downloading do not work on my copy, there is no point in having RISC OS style menus if none of the important options work. |
hzn (-0.1)
1/2/07 7:38AM |
In reply to JWCR:
I agree though I don't have those problems. Firefox 2 rel 2 doesn't even start - all I get is a loop of messages stating that it tries to run, so that I wait until that one is fixed. |
krisa (+1.0)
1/2/07 8:15AM |
Just my opinion ...
I'm genuinely surprised with the negative reactions to this annoncement, and I hope Paul isn't reading these comments and then taking it out on the cat. I'm actually very interested in using Thunderbird under RISC OS. I used Messenger for a year or two, but have recently gone back to Thunderbird on a Mac - I just can't get on with the Messenger and Pluto ways of working.
Congrats to Paul for getting this working without bothering with any pre-announcements or asking for money in advance. I remember reading some time ago that a Thunderbird port might be feasible from some of the groundwork done on Firefox, and it's good to see this happen. |
dgs
1/2/07 8:57AM |
"the OS... two variants each of which are being retro fitted to the hardware of choice of the other variant"
Not at the present time they're not, no.
dgs |
nx (+1.0)
1/2/07 9:36AM |
Peter Nauls is a machine.
He keeps on delivering 1st class work time and time again.
He just keeps on giving until it hurts - and then gives a little bit more.
Peter - well done and thank you
nx |
lym (+3.3)
1/2/07 10:26AM |
In reply to mripley:
What a negative and pointless post. Having Firefox and Thunderbird is an amazing achievement, even if there are some bugs to be ironed-out and features to be added. Behind both is an enormous amount of work on the C tools and libraries needed for other ports and original software. Yes, things are pretty bleak right now, but there are developers working hard to remedy RISC OS's deficiencies. When someone actually /does/ produce a significant edition such as Thunderbird, it must be galling to read you moaning about it. |
SimonC (+0.1)
1/2/07 10:39AM |
In reply to mripley:
So you think RISC OS shouldn't try to catch up where it's been left behind? FF is a very important piece of work, and Thunderbird, whilst not offering as much over what we can already do, does greatly increase what you can do on RISC OS without spending more money, which is pretty important when it comes to platform appeal. |
Jwoody
1/2/07 11:36AM |
I think its fair to say that Peter Naulls is not the worlds greatest "Completer Finnisher" In team player parlance. He does seem to flit to the next project before all the i's are dotted and t's crossed. One can see that with his various UNIX Port projects, so I can understand some people's frustration that "will Firefox ever be complete ?" |
cables (+1.0)
1/2/07 12:43PM |
Like others, I would like to see Firefox improved, although I find it better than some of the people on this thread: I can actually order from Amazon and eBay on my Iyonix now! But I am still delighted by this news. I have been using Thunderbird on my iMac for some time and think it is a very good product and I am delighted to have it available for the Iyonix.
Two questions:
1. Can I copy my old Messenger emails to Thunderbird?
2. Donations? With FF and thunderbird on my Iyonix I really feel the (overdue!) need to put my hand in my pocket! |
hutchies (+1.0)
1/2/07 3:54PM |
In reply to cables:
According to the webpage, you can donate by visiting this link: http://www.riscos.info/index.php/Donations. |
arawnsley (+1.0)
1/2/07 6:36PM |
cables, yes, but you'll need Messenger Pro 4 which allows export in unix standard mbox format, by drag and drop. However, you may find that once you take Mpro 4 for a test drive, you rather like it. Personally, I feel that this development is beneficial in terms of keeping us on our toes - no time to get complacent! I don't particularly like the idea of the clumsy Windows-style email applications coming to RISC OS, but if people want that, it may be something to consider. |
bluenose
1/2/07 8:16PM |
In reply to arawnsley
Well MPro4 seems to to be keeping up to date and I for one am glad of the developments along with your other apps.
As to Thunderbird then I think it does fill a gap and is one that is important in that it helps the market say in can run standard applications. Now if Thunderbird just did the basics and was a little slow then that doesn't matter to some but it might just keep a few people in the market where cost is a factor. |
em2ac
1/2/07 10:06PM |
In reply to Peter:
Cheers again for another fantastic front, I knew that this was the next logical step from Firefox.
now all I need is money for an A9 / Iyonix :@P
In reply to arawnsley:
Is There a demo copy of MP4 I could tinker with?
Isnt there also a wintel version? |
polas
2/2/07 9:57AM |
Great news - I think Thunderbird is a really good email client. Out of interest from a technical point of view (and im not suggesting he should have) but what was the reason for excluding it running on RiscPCs? Is it that the other architectures allowed for certain optimistion operations which the RiscPC doesnt, or did Peter just think it would run too slow on a RPC to be usable? |
arawnsley
2/2/07 11:01AM |
The only demo version is the one on the RISCworld discs which was based on Mpro1 I think (we're on v4 now). The reasoning behind this is twofold - firstly, with an email client, the "first ten minutes" setup is pretty important. If you set up your email client correctly, chances are you'll have a great experience. If we did a demo, most users would essentially be unsupported while doing that. In the "real" product, you get a printed manual, with screenshots and info, as well as phone/email support. Couple this with v4's simplified setup, and it should make for a pleasant trip. As such, I'd rather be able to help people, rather than see users try to "DIY" and end up missing out on things.
The second reason is more why I am "anti-demo" generally... I believe that my first duty is to existing, paid-for customers. If development time is to be allocated, it should be done so for their benefit first and foremost. I think it is a bit unfair to be chasing after new sales creating a demo, instead of developing to mean paying customers needs. The art of creating a demo is not trivial, by any stretch of the imagination - history is full of programs which gave away too much, or too little, and resulted in negative impact to sales. Sure, a great demo can really bolster sales, but it isn't easy.
I'd much rather explain stuff to people in advance (eg. "how do I transfer mail from Pluto", or "can I do xyz?") as at least then potential users can find out if it'll do what they want  |
em2ac
2/2/07 11:12AM |
In reply to arawnsley:
Fair enough :@P just have to wait till I have money from my first customer / the insurance pay-up, from my written off car :@(
Is there support for exchange's Calendar system?
The last company I worked at used this heavily, and so would have been great benefit to me there! (my main computer was my Adjust SA, my second, their Dell Lattitude)
In reply to polas:
I would imagine both!
I use TB on XP, and it's a dream, but lacks stuff like calendar support (as such is in Outlook [shudders])
|
guestx
2/2/07 12:37PM |
In reply to em2ac:
"I use TB on XP, and it's a dream, but lacks stuff like calendar support"
Isn't that what Sunbird is for? I'm sure Mr Naulls will get to that eventually if he's working his way around the Mozilla codebase, but perhaps a donation is the only way to set his course promptly in that direction. |
thegman (+1.0)
2/2/07 1:40PM |
Reply to arawnsley, With respect, I think you should 'get with the times grandad!' about having a demo. On Windows/Mac and other modern platforms, only the most obscure apps don't have demos available. If you feel that a 10-minutes trial is not suitable, then do something else, make it nag, or attach a message on every email sent saying it's a demo, maybe make the maximum size of an attachment too small, there are hundreds of things you can do. I'd say it is trivial to make a demo version of a piece of software, but on niche platform like ours, developers are either stuck in the past, i.e. won't provide demos, supply software only on CD (or god help us, floppy disk), often do not have online ordering etc. It's either that or they have a paralysing fear of piracy. Personally, I can't prove it, but I think piracy is really only a problem on platforms where users don't care about the platform, i.e. Windows, and in the past, the Amiga. On RISC OS though, I think most of the users we are left with feel a certain affection for the platform and would not pirate on a matter of principal.
On RISC OS there has been so many apps which I've considered buying but not done so due to the lack of a demo, particularly the expensive ones. MPro 4 at £40 for the IMAP version, I could probably buy on the chance I'll like it, but personally I'd like to be able to download a demo of Pluto and of MPro4, compare them and but the one I like. I really don't think it's asking too much. |
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