rjek (+5.2)
21/4/08 9:19PM |
More like over two dozen students applied! Which was way more than any of us were expecting! If $500 comes my way as a mentor, I will put it in NetSurf's pot (used for expenses such as visiting shows, running the website and mailing lists, etc), or donate it to charity. |
riscosopen (+4.6)
21/4/08 9:48PM |
Great news! Congrats to the NetSurf team. |
lym (+3.1)
21/4/08 9:56PM |
Great news. The NetSurf team have done a fantastic job, and I wish them every success with this marvellous project. |
DaveC (+1.1)
21/4/08 11:49PM |
Well Done - and well done to Google for giving their support.
Go NetSurf
Cheers, Dave C |
bucksboy
22/4/08 8:37AM |
This is excellent news, but I was sorry not to see Javascript support amongst the projects being worked on; IMO this is the main lack in an otherwise smooth and fast browsing experience. But all credit to the developers and good luck with the sponsored projects!
George |
jmb (+8.8)
22/4/08 9:38AM |
In reply to bucksboy:
We've said time and again that, if NetSurf is to support JavaScript, then a lot of groundwork will need to be done first. There's utterly no point in just hacking JS support in -- then you'll end up with a WXL-style mess. As it happens, one of the projects being undertaken this summer forms part of that groundwork.
In fact, since NetSurf 1.0 was released, approximately 20,000 lines of code have been written with the specific goal of putting NetSurf in a position of being able to support JavaScript. For comparison, the entire NetSurf 1.0 codebase totals about 70,000 lines of code. |
Becky (+1.0)
22/4/08 9:57AM |
Well done team I've been a fan of Netsurf for a few years and told the guys such at Wakefield 07.
Fantastic! |
AW
22/4/08 11:25AM |
Well done and good luck.
Any reason why RISC OS Open couldn't have applied for funding as well? |
jmb (+4.3)
22/4/08 11:28AM |
In reply to AW:
Yes -- their licence doesn't conform to the OSI definition of "Open Source". Therefore, it's not an eligible organisation. See the ROOL FAQ for details about their licence, and consult the GSoC FAQ for details about eligibility. |
tlsa (+6.3)
22/4/08 1:47PM |
Adding JavaScript support to NetSurf is well beyond the scope of a summer project. The projects we have are all feasible within the Google Summer of Code time frame. Remember that the students have no prior knowledge of NetSurf's code or how it works.
In reply to arawnsley:
I'm certain there was no malice in the comment. The point is that if NetSurf is to get JavaScript support, it needs to work robustly and swiftly for the class of complex web applications which are becoming increasingly common (e.g. Google maps, and even the customisation features of the new BBC homepage). For this to happen, a great deal of careful thought and planning is required and, fundamentally, we need to implement a proper DOM. In short, it's an undertaking that requires lots of time and work. As jmb said, "there's utterly no point in just hacking JS support in". If we did that, we would end up with a browser that can run a few trivial sorts of scripts. It would offer no real advantage over the limited JavaScript support available in the traditional RISC OS browsers; WXL, Fresco and Browse. Ultimately the effort would be wasted anyway, as it would need to be ripped out and replaced with a proper implementation. |
tlsa (+0.1)
22/4/08 2:03PM |
Note, by "Browse", I suppose I meant "Phoenix" (the version of Browse with JavaScript), and I forgot to list Oregano. |
SimonC (+1.0)
22/4/08 5:59PM |
Congratulations to the Netsurf team, this is very impressive of yourselves to get noticed like this in the wider world, and with such rewards. |
hutchies (+1.0)
22/4/08 7:56PM |
This is great to hear! All the best to the students and mentors. |
sascott (+1.0)
22/4/08 9:51PM |
Great news.
As for Javascript, I'm itching to see it happen. But I can appreciate the team's approach, even fancy browsers have slight differences in how they interpret the DOM. And Web 2.0 has barely scratched the surface of what is achievable, perhaps in a few years time, the technology would have settled down, and Netsurf will be in a better position to tackle JS.
I'm tackling Web 2.0 for work at present, and it's really hard work! |
tinopeners (+1.0)
23/4/08 12:15PM |
Great news for this really useful and smart browser. It's also a good opportunity to make people (also outside the RISC OS community) aware of this fine alternative browser. And a brighter attention always can help in later funding and support for keeping this lovely project alive. |
ninja (+1.0)
23/4/08 3:39PM |
I've just noticed NS 1.2 has been released - right on schedule!
According to the progress page, it does contain much of the core DOM functionality with was part of jmb's original plan (http://www.drobe.co.uk/extra/NSWTFH.pdf) for javascript (I haven't been following to see if that plan was agreed on, and what the current plan looks like though).
If you compare the tasks above to the pdf there, they do align with the plan to get javascript into the browser quite well. |
Col1
23/4/08 4:22PM |
Slightly off topic but what support is there for external style sheets within RISC OS |
Col1
23/4/08 4:25PM |
Sorry- got carried away and hit enter before I'd finished my post:
Was going to add..
I designed a site for my OU course with the CSS styling and positioning within an external style sheet an older version of Netsurf didn't display the styling so was wondering whether other RO browsers were the same.
Thanks in advance.
Col |
jmb (+5.2)
23/4/08 4:49PM |
In reply to arawnsley:
As tlsa has indicated, there was no malice intended. His clarification is exactly right.
In reply to ninja:
I'm afraid you've misinterpreted the progress page. NetSurf 1.2 is simply a bug fix release. It adds no (major) new features over those present in version 1.0.
In reply to Col1:
NetSurf has supported externally linked stylesheets since the very beginning. It's likely, therefore, that something else was wrong. |
VinceH (+1.0)
23/4/08 4:49PM |
Col1
NetSurf works fine with external style sheets but not locally (unless this has been fixed more recently). The best way to test files locally, therefore, is to run WebJames and serve them up to yourself that way. |
tlsa (+1.0)
23/4/08 5:07PM |
In reply to VinceH:
NetSurf should work (and should always have worked) perfectly with local external stylesheets. All the documentation pages with NetSurf use a local external style sheet, for example. |
jmb (+1.0)
23/4/08 5:08PM |
In reply to VinceH:
It's always worked with external stylesheets, even if loaded from disc. Perhaps you didn't set the stylesheet's filetype correctly?
See here: [Link: vlists.pepperfish.net] |
VinceH (+1.0)
23/4/08 6:34PM |
Here, *mimemap .css returns:
Mime type: text/css, RISC OS filetype: 0xf79
As does *mimemap f79 and *mimemap text/css
My stylesheets are filetyped f79
ADFS::Blonde.$.Websites.softrock_co_uk.site.index/html is typed HTML, and uploaded as http://www.softrock.co.uk/index.html - and contains:
< link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="/skin/styles.css" title="Default">
(deliberately spaced because Drobe's preview didn't seem to like it)
ADFS::Blonde.$.Websites.softrock_co_uk.site.skin.styles.css is typed CSS (f79) and uploaded as http://www.softrock.co.uk/skin/styles.css
Locally, the CSS file isn't used (unless the page is served via WebJames). Remotely, it is.
If I'm doing something stupid, please feel free to make me look like an idiot.  |
VinceH (+1.0)
23/4/08 6:40PM |
In fact, I've now found the problem - and, yes, it was me doing something stupid.
(Well, actually, not doing something stupid, just stupidly not realising something)
The reason I use /skin/styles.css is so that every page on the site can link to the same style sheet using the same link - ie relative to the top level. Which isn't going to work at all unless the site is served, rather than just loaded from disc. |
Col1
23/4/08 6:42PM |
In reply to VinceH:
you link to your style sheet is, more or less, the same as mine. Only difference being I've got <link href... then rel...>
It displays fine in Firefox (pc version) and IE(spit) but not Netsurf. I've not had time to check other browsers and unfortunatly can't upload it anywhere as its an exam piece.
Likewise if anyone has any hints on the best way to link the CSS sheet then please share! |
tlsa (+1.0)
23/4/08 8:13PM |
In reply to Col1:
If Firefox and IE can find it, NetSurf should be able to too. There are two possible problems I can think of:
1. The server is not giving it a content type of text/css. If you visit the CSS file directly in NetSurf, you should see a blank page and Page > Info menu option should show "text/css" for Type. e.g. http://www.netsurf-browser.org/netsurf.css (The CSS file used by the entire NetSurf web site.) If it doesn't show "text/css", the content type is wrong.
2. If you have an @media { ... } block around all the rules in your CSS file, none of the CSS rules will be processed. @media is an currently unsupported.
In reply to VinceH:
Yes, that sort of link will be broken if you are working locally and not based in the root directory of the disc. You could put a copy of the CSS file in a temporary skins directory at the root of the disc, while you test the site locally. Or you could copy to a ram disc or something. |
Col1
23/4/08 9:44PM |
in replyto tsla:
When droping the css file onto netsurf the styling shows and the type shows as text/plain. I'm guessing thats not right? |
Col1
23/4/08 10:03PM |
In reply to tsla:
O I think I'm going bonkers. If I change the file type to css in RISC OS then netsurf displays the page with is styling. However switching back to the dark side the web page no longer displays in Firefox (all styling is lost)
|
tlsa (+1.0)
23/4/08 10:41PM |
In reply to Col1:
Yes, text/plain is not right for CSS.
There is little that can be done without more complete imformation on what you're doing. "Switching back to the dark side"? Do you mean you're using an emulator on Windows? If you're doing this on a HostFS mount in VRPC, have you set up HostFS's extension mapping properly?
In Tools > Options, go to the "Hostfs Extensions" tab and add an entry for the RISC OS type "f79", mapping to extension "css".
Anyway, Drobe article comments is inappropriate for this discussion. Please post on the NetSurf users mailing list if you need support for using NetSurf. |
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Web giant Google confirmed this evening it will stump up $20,000 to pay for four undergraduate programmers to work on the NetSurf project this summer.
