Wakefield show news - RISC OS News, Software and Information

Wakefield show news

Published: 10th May 2003, 06:26:43GMT Source: drobe.co.uk
By Chris Williams

Page 1 of 1

[Updated 21:30 10/5/2003] Show report online

Quick show event log

6:30am - Select 3 and Virtual Acorn pact: We've learnt early this morning that an agreement has been reached between Microdigital, Virtual Acorn and RISCOS Ltd. to steer RISC OS Select 3 onto PC based hardware via the Virtual Acorn emulator. The move sees RISC OS 4 officially emulated for the first time.

In addition to their Omega computers, Microdigital will be exhibiting an Intel Celeron powered laptop running Virtual Acorn's emulator software to run RISC OS Select 3. The laptop is said to emulate RISC OS 4.36 at the speed of a RiscPC.
3:00pm - Photos!: Show photos by servermaster Ian are now online.
5:38pm - End of show news: Right, fast and furious. Microdigital had no Omegas with them to ship, they're being sent out next week. The machines at the moment have no USB, no networking and the video is non-accelerated with some minor glitches although all these will be fixed "soon". Microdigital did have their Alpha machine with them, on their stand and dotted over the show on various developers' stands including RISCOS Ltd.'s. The Alpha machine is a 2GHz Celeron PC laptop and you can order one for a grand. They'll also be shipping next week too, according to Microdigital. The laptop is essentially a WinXP computer running Virtual RPC (written by the same guy who did Red Squirrel) and emulates an ARM 710 RPC system. The Alpha laptops across the show were running RISC OS 4.03 and 4.36. Microdigital also brought 3 racing bikes with them for their stand for some reason.

The busiest developer by far was MW Software, constantly having a long queue of people picking up copies of the new Artworks 2. We're told Tom Hughes of the ARM Club won the Omega prize draw - a great laugh broke out from the ARM Club crew when this was announced, now they can finally compare Microdigital's system with the Castle Iyonix.

Show overview
The event was a positive affair and we were pleased to see many people turn out to the event and support the exhibiting developers and dealers. Punters filled the hall soon after the start of the show and concentrated mostly around the Castle, RISCOS Ltd., Microdigital and MW Software stands. Of course, RISC OS shows aren't just about picking up new kit and rifling through show offers - they're a great way to put faces to names and meet people. It was nice to bump into friends (pepperfish and irc crowds) and talk to developers who were taking a break from show visitors.

The show itself ran the course we'd all nearly predicted so forgive us if you've previously 'read all about it'. Where should we start? Here's the highlights.

Aemulor.com were located right next to Castle, how very fitting. Their Pro version of their 26 bit emulator isn't due to be released for a while as they hope to improve the emulation core further and add other features. Castle themselves had on show an Iyonix running Linux as well as various USB based goodies on other machines. They appeared to have no show surprises seeing as they'd already announced advances like UDMA100 and pop up printing beforehand. You can find the final part of our Iyonix review here, by the way. Castle's Jack Lillingston described Select 3 as "interesting" although technical director John Ballance was overheard telling punters that it's up to RISCOS Ltd. to make a 32 bit Select for the Iyonix.

Over on the other side of the show (in the blue corner), Microdigital were proudly showing off three racing bikes awkwardly placed in the way of their computers and no actual reason given as to why they were there but we were itching for a race between them and Ian's SmartCar - we know who'd win that, clearly. Behind the bikes were a collection of Omegas and an Alpha laptop out on demonstration. Omegas weren't available for people to take away from the show but Microdigital confidentally stated that they'll be posting the machines to deposit holding users next week. Naturally. Whether they'll fix the lack of USB drivers, lack of networking support and glitches in the video system in time for shipping is unknown, they hope to have these issues addressed "soon". However sound, PCI, UDMA133 and CD drive appear to be functional. The Omega Lightning video system is also non-accelerated for the moment. Microdigital appeared pretty casual in light of these problems, insisting it'll all get fixed at some point.

Microdigital's Dave Atkins told drobe.co.uk that, in his eyes, the Omega's sucess lies in its ability to be flexible and upgradable, suggesting that one particular rival's machine (you know who) isn't particularly upgradable and this is where Omega will make its move. Dave was also confidentally reliant on people sticking with their Omega orders despite other alternatives popping up.

But what about this Alpha laptop and my, what a glamorous, glossy booklet Microdigital had gone to the trouble of producing for it. For a grand, you could pick up from Microdigital a 2GHz Celeron powered PC system with 256MB DDR RAM, 64MB shared video memory, 13.3" TFT screen (1024x768x16M max), 15GB harddisc, 24 speed CD drive, 2 USB ports, 1 PS/2 and 1 ethernet port. All weighing in at 3.5Kgs and running WindowsXP and Virtual RiscPC (from Graeme "Red Squirrel/Virtual Acorn" Barnes) emulating an ARM 710 RiscPC over the top. The emulated RiscPC runs RISC OS Select 3 and the system is pretty responsive considering the emulation is aiming at the StrongARM level of speed. When faster than StrongARM? This almost surprise product release from Microdigital means they can push into the empty portable RISC OS market with a laptop offering and RISCOS Ltd. get more hardware to run RISC OS Select on.

When Virtual Acorn produced VA5000, a Windows based A5000 emulator kitted out with RISC OS 3.1, RISCOS Ltd. weren't all that keen on an emulated RISC OS. However the bad feelings may now have been swept under the carpet because seeing RISCOS Ltd. demonstrating on their stand today an Alpha portable running their new Select 3 OS indicates a clear approval of the device. It's not like it had a "Wanted: Alpha laptop running Select - dead or alive" poster nailed above it. Will Virtual RiscPC be available for just the Alpha laptop? That's what we'd like to know too. Assumption cap on now, we believe that the RISC OS Select and Virtual RiscPC supplied with an Alpha laptop is "locked down" to that particular machine and isn't transferable. Microdigital stressed again to us that they don't talk to the press much anymore but will be publishing information on the Alpha on their website very soon now.

"Soon", gotta love that word, so easy to use and means so much and so little at the same time. Orders taken for the Alpha laptop will ship within the week, we were informed. Developers, including RISCOS Ltd. and APDL, all have Alpha laptops for their own use, Microdigital's Dave Atkins told us.

RiscPCs and A7000s won't be used forever as users pine for faster, meatier alternatives and RISCOS Ltd. as a result of perhaps appreciating this, are keen to thrust their OS onto newer hardware, like say, the Omega. And they were exhibiting an Omega running RISC OS 4.36 on their stand so it's interesting to note that they have one. RISCOS Ltd. also had out on display another two RiscPCs running Select 3 and their RISC OS powered jukebox. Lots of fun playing with thumbnailing and iconborders.

R-Comp's typical poster and flyer wallpapered stand was lively, demonstrating WebsterXL (rendering iconbar.com of all things) and their network based remote control and printing software. The Unix Porting Project and IC software (on behalf of Alpha Programming) were also shifting many copies of their respective software. MW Software were enjoying a roaring trade of top vector graphics app Artworks 2, the queue from their stand envloping nearby Explan's. According to the Artworks 2 site, development of Artworks 2 was completed on the 7th of this month, the software CDs going to press on the 8th. On the other side of the hall, Cerilica's Simon Birtwistle was looking mildly fed up, the fabled Vantage 1.10 is due for imminent release however.

Following their announcement overdose this week, Stuart Tyrrell Developments had new USB based goodies on offer as well as classic eseentials like their PS2minimouse converter. Developer Jason Perry of Photodesk was showing off their new CameraDesk app that enables Canon USB cameras to be connected to RISC OS computers. We noticed camera fan and Foundation editor Richard Hallas making a bee line for that stand. Magazines Acorn Publisher and Acorn User had plenty of back issues out on display. And finally, the NetBSD stand had a marvellous motorised RiscPC drive bay flap, that could be controlled over a network.

Was it worth the visit? After so many show predictions and news, you had to turn up to see what was true and what wasn't.

"[Wakefield] was busy, companies were working together (Castle and ROL over popup printers), Microdigital and RISCOS Ltd. on laptop, and there seemed to a good choice of new machines and new options", drobe.co.uk reader Mark Stephens told us after the show. "Obviously nobody had told Martin Wuthner [of MW Software] there was no money to be made in the RISC OS market as he seemed to spend the day taking cheques from a queue of eager customers".

Castle and ROL? Yes, RISCOS Ltd. will be selling the pop up printers for 26 bit OS users. We're looking to the next show already.

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mikeg 10/5/03 10:28AM	Why do I get the feeling that ROL and MD are trying to put one in Castle's eye? More to the point, what's the point in buying an Omega to run 26 bit software if a flipping Celery laptop can go at "the speed of a RiscPC"? Mobile Cel is at 2GHz max, from memory.
Stoppers 10/5/03 11:29AM	*In reply to mikeg:* 1. I think it's called competition (about time, too). 2. They didn't say StrongARM RiscPC, just RiscPC, so a 610, then. Only when we get 10GHz PCs, will we get the equivalent to an SA RPC.
NeilWB 10/5/03 11:36AM	This may please those people who have been waiting years for a RISC OS laptop, but I think that it is bad for the future of RISC OS. IMHO only Castle has the vision, competence, and credibility, to take RISC OS forward. And Microdigital. What does their endorsement of this initiative say about their faith in their own Omega? Neil
andypoole 10/5/03 11:38AM	<plug>There is a photo of it on the iconbar</plug>
imj 10/5/03 11:39AM	Even the freeware red squirrel on my Atlon Xp2100+ machine emulates RISC OS 4 FASTER than my StrongARM RiscPC for most things except intensive graphics. I suspect Virtual RiscPC would have the VA JIT in it so should absolutely fly. Celeron's a bit crap tho, and the tiny screen would annoy me. I'd rather pay $XXX for the software and put it on decent hardware!
mikeg 10/5/03 11:51AM	I'll quite happily sell VARPC (or whatever they call it). Need to email Aaron for prices, I suppose.
Phlip 10/5/03 11:55AM	Well Omega's here and about half of it's working as Chris will probably expain later. Managed to crash it though and it would'nt reboot
AMS 10/5/03 11:56AM	The inconsistency in this is breathtaking (to put it mildly). RISCOS Ltd lambasted Aaron for selling VA with (allegedly) an "unlicensed" version of RO 3.1. ROL (if I recall correctly) even said they were not allowed distribute RO4 on non-ARM hardware. So what's changed ? Is this a good thing ? I think overall it is extrodinarily bad news (all it will do is sell some extra copies of VA, and RO4 and most importantly Windows). And I know many will say that will put money into the Acorn market - but will it ? After all VA needs Windows to run, and RO4 (now being distributed with VA) will need Windows as well. To run the Windows people will buy PC's and sales of RO hardware will suffer. Although this is being aimed at the portable market - surely people could also install it on a PC and (not) buy an Omega or Iyonix.... There's still time to shoot the other foot guys ! -- Annraoi McShane,
Snig 10/5/03 12:09PM	waves to Wakefield And I thought ROL and VA were having a bust up. Bloody gangstars.
imj 10/5/03 12:14PM	Do ROL care about selling on "RO hardware"? Well, why should they when folks like Castle come along, shun ROL and sell their own dubious crappy cut of the OS? ROL's gotta make money and if that means selling on VA, so be it. At the end of the day, we can now have a laptop running RISC OS. We couldn't before. What's your beef with that?
AMS 10/5/03 12:17PM	I wasn't slagging them off over this, just pointing out that it seemed a tad pointless to start an argument about something and then do a U-Turn on it afterwards (which either suggests the original reasons for having the argument were bogus or that the "licensing"* terms had changed). Funny that you can get Select 3 on a PC (using non-ARM hardware) and can't get it on the Iyonix (is it just me or is there something wrong with this picture ?). Enjoy the show guys (just sorry I can't be there !!!) -- Annraoi McShane,*
Snig 10/5/03 12:24PM	It's a pity ROL and VA have made up with lots of hugs and kisses because it takes the drama out of the situation. tbh I think the laptop will be scorned by non-RO, less RO-enthusiastic people, I mean who wants to seriously emulate an OS, It does sound silly. Tough job they've got marketting it. Then again they've always been good at that. :p
imj 10/5/03 12:26PM	Yup. It's a very "wrong" picture. Blame Castle for being weird about their OS choices. It's far far more beneficial to me to have a 233Mhz StrongARM running lots of software and a decent OS than a 600Mhz XScale running square root bugger all with an OS that's frankly years out of date. Each to their own, I guess. It's a stupid position only perpetuated by the pettymindedness that seems to embody the RISC OS community these days. *In reply to mikeg:* If you can get Virtual RiscPC for sale unlocked from a Micro<censored>about Celeron then I'll certainly be buying a few copies!
Snig 10/5/03 12:38PM	So either you go for up-to-date hardware and out-of-date OS or up-to-date OS and out-of-date hardware. Great choice folks. I was under the impression that the Iyonix ran most software these days. Besides software needs to develop, you can't keep running the same moose over the years. The applications may be good but they will be out-classed by alternatives on different platforms. That would be pretty much handing a noose to the user-base. I assume software developers would much rather develop for up-to-date hardware. Yes, you can run a nice OS on different hardware but who would develop new software to be run on an emulator? Wouldn't they just develop for the original OS?
AMS 10/5/03 12:42PM	*In reply to imj:* I don't understand what you mean by Castle being "weird" about their choice of OS. They surely hadn't much option, after all the RISC OS ROL offer will not run on any 32 bit hardware (unless you count a celeron The issue Castle have addressed is what to do when there are no more 26/32bit processors available (and that will* happen when Intel decide there is no more need for StrongARM). Castle tackled this by the best effective means (an OS that supports actual 32bit only CPU and new hardware). The version ROL sell limits vendors to producing computers that must* have actual Acorn hardware or use some mix of software/hardware emulation. This is a less optimal solution (IMHO). As to pettymindedness if Riscstation were seriously planning a portable then this announcement will (surely) have killed it off (what about the depositors????). The future lies with RO5/Iyonix (I think), granted RO5 may lack some Select features - but it does run on faster hardware and can run much 26bit software with Aemulor (albeit with some performance hit - but probably less than the hit of running RO Select 3 on a PC using VA surely). I am concerned that a time at which MD should be concentrating on finishing off Omega they're launching a PC laptop running VA/Select3 that must have some negative impact on the RISC OS hardware market. -- Annraoi McShane,
imj 10/5/03 12:47PM	Why would anyone have any reason to develop any app for Iyonix only? It offers nothing over Select, just happens to be running a wee bit faster. The RiscPC userbase is still much much bigger than Iyonix can be so app developers would only be cutting off their own noses by developing apps that didn't run on Select. It's gonna be a long long time before it's sane for developers to stop supporting RiscPC. Afaics, Iyonix has little to offer bar speed and that's not much cop without a decent OS. Great shame.
imj 10/5/03 12:58PM	*In reply to AMS:* The "weird" choice was for Castle to get their OS from, shall we say, "otehr" sources, rather than do the sane thing and get ROL to do a 32bit version - which I'm pretty damn sure they would have done if asked. As for VA/S3 on a PC ... it's faster than Aemulor can hope for, and they're stuck with a 600Mhz CPU wheras PC power is still storming ahead (I see AMD have just released Xp3200+, Opteron is here and Athlon64 will be with us this year!). I guess I basically just don't care what actual hardware I'm using, so long as I "see" ARM/RISC OS at the top.
NeilWB 10/5/03 1:04PM	I’m putting my support and my money behind Castle Technology for a very simple reason - I want to see the RISC OS market flourish, and in my opinion Castle is the only company with the vision, capability and credibility to make this happen. Examine the track records of the possible contenders: Microdigital – the Omega is years late! Reliable sources close to Microdigital always seem to be suggesting that production machines are just around the corner, but as deadlines come and go, and in the absence of production Omegas, Microdigital seems less and less credible. There are Omegas at Wakefield it seems, but from all accounts still not finished – I thought all of the delays since Christmas related to copyright issues, but apparently not. They may have some interesting technology, but so far at least, have been unable to put it into production. And is this joint agreement with VA and RISCOS Ltd., their vision of the future of RISC OS? Risc Station – also seem incapable of bringing their RISC OS laptop to market, and I can only conclude that their delivery capability is no better than that of Microdigital. RISC OS Ltd. – four years on from the demise of Acorn and where are we? Still with a 26 bit OS, still constrained by Acorn hardware. We have Select of course, and the enhancements to the GUI are most welcome, but is this really the VISION for the future of our wonderful OS? I certainly hope not. Which leaves only Castle Technology – not only have they have provided the RISC OS market with a new machine, available now, offering a level of performance that until recently, we could only dream about, but they actually seem to have a plan. They have developed a 32-bit version of RISC OS, and introduced a Hardware Abstraction Layer (HAL), changes that simplify the job of porting RISC OS to other hardware platforms. They have demonstrated that they are reliable, capable of delivering what they promise, and that they are committed to the RISC OS market. In my opinion their success is crucial to the future of RISC OS. We should help them shape a new vision for the future: Bemoaning the lack of new software for our platform, many pundits, rack their brains in futile attempts to identify the next “killer app.” – you know, the one that is going to transform the RISC OS scene! I do not believe that this is a constructive way forward. It’s just not going to happen. Instead, we need to consider new markets. The desktop computer will, more and more, become just one specialised element of the intelligent, interconnected home. The desktop computer market is already saturated; major players such as Microsoft are investing their big bucks in growth markets, such as mobile computing and enterprise software products such as .Net. W all need to recognise that if there is a “killer app” for RISC OS, then as someone here on Drobe commented recently, it’s the RISC OS GUI itself. I believe that we need to ensure that RISC OS finds it’s way onto other key platforms, and we need to ensure that it offers compatibility with other platforms. I would suggest PDAs and / or tablet devices as obvious platform choices – all MS Windows based PDAs employ ARM based processors, and it should at least be possible to start thinking about porting RISC OS to this platform. Penetration in growth markets such as mobile computing, might jut provide the necessary impetus to attract new developers. I also think that future developments to the OS should focus on the GUI itself – e.g. a new generation of tools that might provide innovative solutions to the problems associated with effective selection and presentation of information. I really would like to provoke a constructive debate on where we, as a merry group, are collectively heading, and what we can, and must, do to ensure that RISC OS doesn't disappear into oblivion. I'm donning my asbestos suite just in case. Neil Whiteley-Bolton
imj 10/5/03 1:07PM	*In reply to NeilWB:* If the "Killer app" for RISC OS is the RISC OS GUI itself then Iyonix is buggered then isn't it?
mavhc 10/5/03 1:19PM	"why should they when folks like Castle come along, shun ROL and sell their own dubious crappy cut of the OS" If ROL couldn't agree with Castle to sort out a 32bit OS why should Castle wait around when they can get it cheaper elsewhere? Prove it's a) dubious, and b) crappy. "It's far far more beneficial to me to have a 233Mhz StrongARM running lots of software and a decent OS than a 600Mhz XScale running square root bugger all with an OS that's frankly years out of date." Does nothing for hardware manufacturers if they can't sell new machines. And in x years when there's no StrongARMs and faster XScales? ROS5 will be better off, ROS4 will be worse off. "Why would anyone have any reason to develop any app for Iyonix only? It offers nothing over Select, just happens to be running a wee bit faster." Where "a wee bit" is at least 2 times faster on CPU bound things and up to 50 times faster with harddisc IO, yeah, noone wants that. Features it has over Select: Cheaper. Unicode, Sprites11, support for Thumb stuff, DOSFS disc title fix, ShareFS over subnets, documentation available for all, support for Windows keyboard keys in desktop. Unicode and documentation are the obvious plus points. And you know everyone with an Iyonix has it, unlike Select. Why would anyone have any reason to develop any app for Select only? They're "stuck" with a 600MHz CPU, and Select is stuck with a 233MHz CPU or emulation. Any network support in Virtual Acorn yet? Castle paid me one hundred billion dollars to write this.
NeilWB 10/5/03 1:19PM	*In reply to imj:* Explain please.
philipnet 10/5/03 1:28PM	Support for the two Windows and one Menu keys are in RISC OS 4. And it's a simple matter to make C programs run on RISC OS 3.1 and higher and straight forward to make ARM code programs run on RISC OS 3.5 and higher (as long as you have the source code ).
jmcarey 10/5/03 1:28PM	The number of times I have read "decent OS" and OS that is out of date, blimey I dunno what RO5 has done to you but it can't be pretty. I would have thought it sensible for shows like this to enable people to make their own minds up about the "uptodateness" of RO5 and not listen to somebody just ranting on their soap box. -- James Carey
Snig 10/5/03 1:30PM	*In reply to imj:* Sorry I don't think that the main GUI advantages (over other platforms) of RISC OS were created in Select. They were enhanced - and by recent reports magnificently. gets off a soap box
imj 10/5/03 1:33PM	*In reply to mavhc:* Hey, I'm not saying that Iyonix doesn't have good things to offer. I'd die for Select on Iyonix really, but given the stupidity going on, I can't see that every happening. You've mentioned some petty little things on your "advantages over Select" list and ignored the humungous list of things that Select does that RO 3.7^H^H^H5 doesn't do. You've even managed to cock that list up, too. Sprites11 is supported by Select and I dunno what "Thumb stuff" you mean anyway. And you're bang on when you say "Why would anyone have a reason to develop any app for Select only" -- they wouldn't, if not using the key new Select features! Spread the userbase as wide as possible. As far as ROL/Castle go, the blah I heard was that Castle didn't even ask ROL at all! Quite a number of ex-Pace folks at Castle, see... *In reply to NeilWB:* Explain what? I'm saying Iyonix is buggered as it's GUI is pure pants compared to Select, IMO.
jerryf 10/5/03 1:37PM	The situation with RISC OS is pretty simple. Castle could have given ROL a bag of money to get them a 32-bit OS (ROL would probably have bought most from Pace, and bolted on Select and other stuff). Instead Castle has given Pace the (probably smaller) bag of money and are stuck with an OS that they can't develop properly without ROL and also got themselves in competition with them instead of having ROL on their side. The situation with the major developers is the same. Castle should actively make friends. Not sit back and relax.
AMS 10/5/03 1:41PM	There'll be no select on Iyonix in part for political reasons (the success of Select now seems tied to existing users and the Omega). There may also be technical ones (is Select all* 32bit neutral - if not it could only be emulated using Aemulor - surely a bit of a retrograde step ?). The thing is Castle may not have asked ROL for a 32bit OS (I am not privy to this), but get this ROL at their shareholders meeting seemed to indicate that a 32bit RISC OS was highly unlikely. As that meant ROL had no OS that could* run a xScale class processor there surely was no point Castle approaching them for something they [ROL] hadn't got and had stated they [ROL] were likely not to have. What RO5 has that no other version of ROS has is it runs on the very latest ARM hardware and has been hardware abstracted so it is no longer dependant on legacy chips or chips likely to become unavailable. Select does not even attempt to address this - and that is the real problem. -- Annraoi McShane,
imj 10/5/03 1:44PM	What reason do ROL have to add HAL to Select if they've no customers for that? Select could have been 32bitted just like RO 3.7 was 32bitted (afaik most of the work was done at Pace, so ROL should/could have access to that anyway). jerryf has put it very accurately - I don't think Castle are doing themselves any favours at all.
AMS 10/5/03 1:57PM	*In reply to imj:* They don't strictly have to, but it would make the OS less likely to become unable to run on the latest hardware as it would be easier to adapt. Also it would make it possible for ROL to change the OS in an easier manner to suit specific vendor requirements (remember RON - that would have een very easy* if a HAL had existed). If the 32bit work has been done then all ROL have to do is license it from Pace - so why the fuss ? In actual fact ROL started off by wanting to 32bit RISC OS, then said they wouldn't and finally said they would (but it might require a new share issue to raise money). If Castle did it then so could ROL, so why didn't they ? Hey it's still not too late, would I be foolish to hold my breath on this one ? -- Annraoi McShane,*
jerryf 10/5/03 2:06PM	No company says 'we won't' if offered sufficient money, and no company says 'we will' if not offered sufficient money. Castle clearly hasn't offered sufficient money, or decided they could do without ROL, just as they seem to think they can do without the support of some major developers as well. All big mistakes, smelling a lot like the result of pure arrogance and a bad business sense.
Walks 10/5/03 2:08PM	It would be interesting to know how fast they have managed to get Virtual Acorn + Select to run on PC hardware (i.e. top of the range hardwire). Additionally, if VA can still be further optimised. I wonder if one day you will be able to run RISC OS faster on PC hardware than on ARM hardware... (Personally, I don't see a problem with this if it ever did happen) One thing the Iyonix does seem to have done, however, is make a lot of companies work together.
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